Husband left kids alone at home

[OhDamnYourEyes]

I just came back home after a night out with friends, which was arranged a week ago. Husband was going to be home with the kids (8 & 11), put them to bed etc.

Yesterday he asked what time I was likely to be back, as a friend had asked him to go out for a drink. I said that I wasn’t sure, but not until fairly late. As a joke I said ‘you won’t just go out and leave them, will you’ and he laughted and said ‘of course not’.

Fast forward to tonight, I come home at 23:45, kids asleep, he’s not here. When I call him, he’s at his friends house (ca. 15 mins away) for a drink.

We had recently discussed starting to leave them home alone for short periods every now and then, and once went out together to a birthday nearby from 8-10.30pm (we couldn’t get a babysitter and gave them a phone to call us if they needed to). I did however say that I feel they are actually a bit to young for this, and that while I think it’s ok to go to the shops for an hour in the daytime and leave them, I don’t feel comfortable doing so at night.

I had a massive go at him over the phone, told him that he’s irresponsible and that I don’t want to see him. What would you do?

Please don't make excuses for inexcusable behaviour.

There is simply no such accommodations that are adequate for keeping unaccompanied and sleeping children safe.

The apologists for child neglect are truly pathetic.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/in-the-home/home-alone/

I'm a bit aghast at the outrage here. The OP has admitted it was too young. But it's also a bit wrong to not leave 14 and 15 year olds as some posters say. At that age children need independence in order to build resilience.

Yes I agree. What DH did was completely different from the previous occasion. He had agreed to stay in but went and suited himself and didn't even tell OP. The shock of coming home to an empty must have been horrible. That to me is a huge betrayal of trust, in a way what they did previously isn't relevant because they had decided an adult should stay home. That's what the thread should be focusing on.

In a way it pointless comparing countries... as in countries where its normal to leave them from younger there is preparation from a younger age to get them ready.

GinnyBee I'm a neighbour - Estonian supreme court has discussed the matter and said it's age-appropriate and socially acceptable to leave 7 year olds for a few hours after school.

That's my point actually. If you don't start preparing kids because you're convinced they cannot possibly manage until they are 15 anyway, of course they will prove you right.

There are ways you go about preparing them. At that age, leave them for half an hour in the daytime to pop to get milk or whatever. Don't leave them for hours at night time while you're out drinking.

ill stick my neck out about all these catastrophes that kids aged 8 and 11 can’t deal with….

The overwhelming majority of adults have no experience of being in fires. And a high proportion of these will panic, and potentially do the wrong thing. They’ll try to fight the blaze themselves, or rescue precious items, family pets etc and get themselves into trouble.

Most children are used to going through fire evacuations on a regular basis from a very young age from nurseries,to schools. They know a fire alarm when they hear it. Just like all adults. They are equally as equipped following instructions on what to do in a fire at school than an adult is at work.

it doesn’t matter how old a child is, every parent should be telling their child what to do if alarm at home happens. They need to know their own escape plan and emergency routes. Do parents not teach their kids that? You could get overcome with smoke, your child needs to know that they need to get out quickly. They need to know to get out and then ring 999, or get a neighbour to do that. It really isn’t something you need high levels of experience or cognitive processing skills or maturity for. Because even adults, when afraid, get flight, fight, freeze mode which shuts down brain into reptilian thinking and not logical, executive thinking functions. It should be automatic, not something you need to even think about.

similarly the catastrophic thinking around burglary. Do you really think you as an adult will handle a burglar any better, with a better outcome? What do you think you’re going to do? Talk the burger out of nicking your stuff! Adults do some stupid things like challenging burglars that lead to far worse consequences. And burglars have been known to break in when kids are sleeping while parents are at home, even coming into their bedrooms 🤦‍♀️

It is about teaching your kids on how to deal with emergencies. Giving them confidence to carry out an action plan you’ve practiced frequently with them. Do people not understand that firefighters come to fires confident, with the right skills to do their job, because they spend the vast, overwhelming majority of their time practicing, following playbooks on what to do in a given situation again, and again, till it is instinctive, because yes, they can also be fearful and the reptilian brain can kick in.

When was last time all these parents on here, throwing their hands up in horror about an 8year old left on their own, has taught their child what the fire alarm sounds like, what to do if they hear it, how to get out of house, how to call 999, where the door key is kept at night so they can unlock if needed to get out and not wait for you ( you could be overcome by smoke sadly) . Do you practice these fire escapes with your 4 and 5 year olds. Why not? It could save their life.

we read about amazing kids aged 3, 4, 5 who’ve rung for ambulances cos mummy collapsed! Why have they been able to do that, because they’ve had parents who’ve done the teaching to tell them what to do so they’re confident and knowledgeable to do it

im not saying 8 years old is old enough to spend hours alone, it depends on child. And that’s the OPs post discussion here…but always on these threads there’s a contingent of parents whose argument seems solely based on “ wot about fire/burglary/catastrophe” and it’s the most bat shit argument to present wrt kids being left on their own

These catastrophes happen if you are there or not. Empower your kids to deal with these extreme emergencies without you anyway. their well-being and yours may depend on it .

They were left once for a short period with checks in place and OP wasn’t comfortable with it, so didn’t do it again. She needs to lay down the law with her DH to make sure he doesn’t leave them alone again until they’re in agreement as to when it’s safe to do so - he’s betrayed her trust. Typical MN hysteria to call it child neglect.

It's not about the practical stuff for me. It's about the emotional stuff. I don't think for a second that the majority of 8 year olds wouldn't be scared at being left alone at night, even if they pretended they weren't.

@MaisyAndTallulah well put. OP I think your view is reasonable and your response totally justified.

Though at this point I feel I should remind everyone that an apologist for child neglect is in the government- Esther McVey.

Firstly you left them on their own ,didnt feel comfortable with it and decided not to do it again .DH then did! So surely he is to blame here not OP. Both of you need to decide not to do this any more ,and stick to it! At 11 a child is too young to be left alone, and too young to supervise a younger child.However thankfully no harm was done ,so move on and learn by your mistake.

The most troubling thing for me reading this is the failure of some posters to distinguish between 2 completely different scenarios. In the first the child is answering a call at 20 min intervals for a 2 hour period while obviously awake and then put to bed by parents. I can't see how whether this was day or night is even relevant?

The second scenario involves children asleep alone not knowing there is no adult in the house where they could understandably wake up and be terrified. And whats worse one parent is purposely not telling the other that they have done this.

you’re talking about “fear”. or at least fearful emotions like anxiety, stress, etc

Fear is caused by the unknown. That’s it. Not complicated. Fill as much of that unknown with known and you reduce fear. That makes a happy, confident, independent and capable child.

ALL emotions are a result of our internal “thoughts”. The same experience can produce different thoughts in different people, or even same person at different times/experience , and that produces entirely different emotions. If kids “think” they’re unsafe because of fear /unknown then off course they’ll have the emotions of fear, scared, stress, anxiety. The same child who is empowered with knowledge of what to do in a fire etc will not think about that as a risk, any more when alone than with mum or dad. And therefore not have same emotional response. Fire or whatever. Doesn’t matter. Fill the void of unknown with known.

Emotions dont come out of no where.

Too young particularly if he's drinking
I was left alone at ten with my brother who was five and there was a small fire
I ended up sitting outside on the pavement alone apart from my brother for two hours in my pyjamas as my attempt to get hold of my parents was thwarted.

I agree - save that I think sometimes burglaries etc are slightly more inclined to happen under cover of night ( if it was winter). But there is a big difference between the two scenarios. Doesn’t mean either is ideal but DH stretched the precedent enormously.

Id also add that in this country sadly , I agree that most 8 year olds feel that way now. Wasn’t always the case. Isn’t in other countries. I’m only 60s, and kids were left at home whilst parents went to neighbours parties a lot. Didn’t all have landlines in those days even. Did more kids die due to being home alone? Nope

children are at less risk now then 40 years ago by themselves in homes. especially from fires.

in fact children’s highest risk is while at home, is in a house with adults due to abuse. And there’s a massive risk to kids in “care” who are surrounded by “ carers” continuously. The proportion of those with emotional issues is a national disgrace.

and sadly there ain’t a lot kids in either of these situations can do to get themselves out of that catastrophe

Anything can happen in 5mins OP never mind 2hr 30mins! Ffs is a party really that important, awful from both of you!

Not to tell you or them is unforgivable I think. I'd be kicking him out for betraying your and their trust.

What? The OP has to put her social
life on hold until the children are old enough? Absolutely not! She’d had the evening organised for over a week and the husband should have stayed at home to look after children. If the friend wanted a drink at home, they could have brought said drink round to the husband!!

Think I left my oldest son alone in the evening for a few hours when he was 12

I've taught my kids what to do in emergencies. When my son was 5 he had to use my phone to call the police because the door mechanism on my bedroom door broke and me and his sister were locked inside. My children are very capable and sensible.
I still wouldn't leave children of the OP's ages alone, let alone leave them later at night to go out drinking. It's neglect.

An 11 year old is quite capable of using a phone and understanding for instance that parents are at X location, having a meal or whatever and their parents can be contacted on the phone and will be home by X time, don't open the door etc.

I don't think parents going out until 10.30 for dinner is outrageous for a mature 11 year old to deal with.

A precedent was clearly set in his mind when you had both done it to attend a party. Obviously it’s inexcusable but you need to have a “massive go” at yourself too for having started doing it at all. It’s totally outrageous and you both need to seriously self reflect on your priorities. Birthdays and going out drinking over your children’s safety is pure idiocy.