To think that net immigration…

[Libertass]

Of 745,000 people a year isn’t what the 17 million people who voted for Brexit in 2016 thought they were voting for?

YABU = Yes, this is what Leave supporters voted for.

YANBI = No, they didn’t vote for this.

@EasternStandard I agree totally on that point. I certainly think the rules around legal migration have clearly been somewhat loose in the last few years , although to be honest I feel the gvt put themselves in a difficult situation where they really couldn't win by trying to appease the far right - dont forget many in the party actually did say 'there is no suggestion of leaving the single market' - my own view is that if they were going to implement Brexit ( and clearly I wasn't pro that anyway) but I am pragmatic and feel it would at the time have been better to implement a step back to a Norway situation to see how that went without impacting the economy somewhat so quickly and not causing a sudden lack of staff in all kinds of key areas.

Given the current government are happy with over a million migrants coming here in a year, I don't think the number of asylum seekers would be a problem, although one might have to limit visas for others.

As far as I can tell the difference is the HKers help to continue the house price bubble, whilst Afgans might not.

I don’t think SM was that possible in Brexit winning. However I would not have been against it proposed as GE. I prefer Labour to be clear. And if polling reflects what people say then let it be voted on.

I am for closer economic alignment and saw a ‘pick up the phone’ offer from Germany the other day, so that sounds good to me

I do think AI will change FOM requirements so that’s a factor, high requirement for workers will drop. So maybe that could swing it should I be asked

But I’m not as fussed as others over legal migration, it’s much easier to control than irregular migration

On the latter we have an international set up created at a time when profiteering wasn’t really there and pre climate pressures

Many countries have their hands tied and they can’t do much except use alternate locations. Traffickers are increasing, profit and huge sectors are set up, so will be hard to challenge

It’ll be the post war set up that voters and politicians will start to change

My views would have stuck at 2016 if it weren’t for AI and climate change causing mass migration.

I am fairly neutral on whether limitatinos are on the low or high paid. Taking the high paid steals skills from less fortunate nations so perhaps is the worst of colonialism and should be banned. Taking the lower pay means more UK people sit around not bothering to work as benefits pay them. The over 700k net immigration a year now compared with just about zero from 1960s to 1985 and into the early Blair years has kept UK wages much lower than they would have been for many ordinary people and in some cases changed the face of where they live sometimes not in ways they like.

But I am sure Sunak said he wanted a high wage economy?

Yep. The Tories have known that the small boats isn’t really an issue but it suited their agenda to drive that whole Rwanda bullshit, as you said to deflect from the numbers of migrant visas they were issuing on a daily basis. This country is so schizophrenic when it comes to migrants. We know we need them, we invite them over then act like they are the ones causing problems.

Mass irregular migration is an issue across the EU

Have a look at events outside U.K.

Well we were discussing UK immigration figures, but yes the same applies to many countries in Europe.

I think you’re underestimating if you think climate related mass migration is a ‘distraction’

It’s easy to see it could bring very real issues. Probably more than we can really envisage atm

"This country is so schizophrenic when it comes to migrants. We know we need them, we invite them over then act like they are the ones causing problems."

Exactly. This current government is pulling the same trick that it always has - deflecting and distracting in order to hide its own incompetence and lack of investment in education, skills training, infrastructure, healthcare and so on.

It reminds me of the story about the company boss who invites a British worker and an immigrant employee into his office for a cup of tea. On the table are 10 biscuits. The boss helps to himself 9 of the biscuits, turns to the British worker and says "Watch that other bloke - he's trying to take your biscuit".

25,000 of the richest people and companies own over 50% of the land in England. The wealthiest 745,000 in the UK probably own more than the other 65 million put together - yet 21 pages of comment largely suggest that people have taken the bait and believe that the biggest "problem" facing the UK is apparently the 745,000 recently arrived immigrants ...

Yes we know this but it doesn't solve the problem of everyone else having to share the remaining resources and land and a constant flow of extra people arriving continually

It is completely unreasonable apparently to point out that there are over a million empty homes in the UK, most (although we cannot be certain as there is no effective register of who owns what) owned by the very wealthy.

If only there was a way of addressing those inequalities, say for example insisting that the very wealthy pay their share of taxes, rather than letting them get away with paying a smaller proportion of their income in tax than teachers and nurses.

Who said ANY of this is “hilarious”? The rise of the far right 100% began with the toxic and undeliverable promises of the Brexit referendum and if you can’t acknowledge that you’re pig ignorant.
Brexit was never going to deliver lower immigration in the way all of you who voted for it were duped to believe. And Remain tried to tell you that.

Well to be fair to Brexiteers, Brexit did give us control of immigration. The government chooses to exercise that control only as its suits them.

The country was promised an Australian type system to attract the 'brightest and the best'. Instead we got a system that allows businesses to bring in workers on less than the minimum wage. And for every worker, we also get their dependants.

This is what has led to a net increase of 745k people last year, all needing to access schools, healthcare, housing, etc.

@DogsDinner indeed- because the gvt hadn't factored in one bit that with the exception of the NHs to some extent- the gaps left by departing EU citizens are mainly in necessary lower and moderate service type jobs- there are far less issues at the 'brightest and the best' higher paid end of the market. And it isn't just as simple as saying 'well pay those jobs more' because as we all know if you start paying much higher for HGV drivers then it reflects on food prices or far more for care workers makes the homes totally unviable etc, etc - higher wages have knock on effects, and we don't have enough affordable housing in many parts of the country(rented or bought) to balance off the effects of much higher prices.

Well we don't have enough affordable housing for the people already here, and I suppose I feel strongly about this because I am one of the many people who has no hope of affording adequate housing for my family, and I know this has a negative effect on my kids.

So I can't see how increasing the population by 745,000 through immigration in just one year is not going to make the situation a whole lot worse.

The massive new housing development near me, built on farmland, 2 bedroom houses start at £250k.

But my point really is that immigration is not even solving our labour shortage problems if we have no

Sorry, posted too soon. The point I was trying to make is that if we have no limits on the number of dependants low paid workers can bring in, then we are not solving our labour shortages, but potentially adding to them. Every extra person puts demands on services.

@DogsDinner I sympathise hugely - we earn good money but private rent , simply because we are too old now to get mortgages- at the point we could have afforded a biggish mortgage!

This is why I think having extended families allowed in - as opposed to the younger and mainly single people that had been coming in (and often shared) really isn't a good move. Most will need rented

Well we don't have enough affordable housing for the people already here ...

So I can't see how increasing the population by 745,000 through immigration in just one year is not going to make the situation a whole lot worse.

This conflates two issues.

The lack of affordable housing has been caused by a number of factors - the sell-off of Council housing, no rent caps, poor planning laws that allow developers to build a few luxury houses when what is needed is more affordable homes, the concentration of investment in certain parts of the country while other parts have been left to decay, the low taxation of capital gains made by speculators and landlords, the proliferation of holiday lets and Airbnb, and the huge influx of money into the UK property market (much of it "funny money") from overseas, to name just a few.

Even with immigration, overall population growth in the UK has been stable at around 250,000 a year, or 0.3%, which is regarded as population stagnation. Of course immigration adds to the demand for housing, and the immigrants want to live where there are jobs (just like everyone else does) but these places are also the places where there is the greatest shortage of housing.

The housing situation could, and should, be being addressed by the Housing Minister. This week's Minister is apparently Lee Rowley (I had to look it up) who has been in post for less than a month. There have been 15 Housing Ministers since this government came to power in 2010. Formulating and then enacting a housing policy does not seem to be a priority for them, and whenever they do make a decision, it often appears to be more influenced by the property developers (who also happen to be big donors) rather than by the needs of the population.

@Havanananana absolutely the case.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but however much we reform the housing system, 745,000 extra people a year is still going to mean a massive amount of the countryside being built on.

We've now had over 20 years of mass immigration, yet we still apparently need more people! Perhaps our take from that should be that it's not working, and we need to find another way of dealing with an ageing population.

Soylent Green?

@SoMuchSimpler or indeed Logan's Run!