To think that net immigration…

[Libertass]

Of 745,000 people a year isn’t what the 17 million people who voted for Brexit in 2016 thought they were voting for?

YABU = Yes, this is what Leave supporters voted for.

YANBI = No, they didn’t vote for this.

@AlecTrevelyan006 "So if the ones that leave are replaced by new arrivals the ‘number’ of immigrants, and thus the increase in population, stays the same."

If X thousand "immigrants" (e.g. students, fixed-term workers) leave and are replaced by the same number of new immigrants, there is no increase in the population. The net number represented by this group remains the same.

The government could reduce the number of students - but that would impact the financial feasibility of many university courses, and reduce the amount of "hidden export" revenue generated for the country.

The government could reduce the number of fixed-term visas, but employers are already complaining that there are labour shortages in many industries. If companies cannot get the workers then they either cannot continue to operate or grow, or they relocate to somewhere where they can access the required skills.

The government could set a minimum wage limit of £40,000 as suggested by Johnson and ban workers from bringing their spouse. This would immediately drastically reduce the number of overseas workers in nursing, healthcare and social care. Many nursing homes would simply close due to a lack of staff. Hospital waiting lists would get even longer.

Every action generates a consequence - something that he government is happy to ignore when they spout simplistic slogans. The government is quite happy to stir the immigration pot in order to distract from their own failings. As long as 30% of the electorate fall for the deception they reckon they can stay in power.

It would be good to see who was actually here and if they are in work before bringing even more people to the UK.

There's nothing wrong with it on an individual level. I'm sure she's lovely. It's when she's one of several hundred thousand people settling in this country every year, that people think there might be downsides.

Also she does rather illustrate the fact that immigration doesn't even necessarily solve the problems it is supposed to.

She's working in a low paid job, and has dependants, so the family will be costing the country far more in taxes than she pays. Plus her family will probably be placing as many demands on services as her work relieves.

No - because if there has been an increase of 700,000 and they leave and are replaced by a different 700,00 there has still been an increase of 700,000.

@DogsDinner

So who do you think should be doing the work that the Indian lady is doing?

Why is it necessary to bring workers from abroad to do this work, and how would you resolve the issue? (Remember, the patients that she is looking after need care right now, today, tonight).

Why are you looking at the equation only in terms of money and "costs" without including any social value for the work that she is doing? If her patients had to stay at home and be cared for by their families, how much would it cost these families in terms of needing a larger home, one adult having to give up work (and presumably be paid carer benefits) and in terms of the time and sacrifices to their own lives that the family would have to make? How would the patient benefit if skilled, well-equipped care provision is replaced by unsuitable home accommodation and untrained family carers?

I remember my Brexiteer Granny telling me we should all vote for Brexit to keep the ‘racist term for Asians’ out.

Brexiteers are often racist, misinformed, gullible and delusional IMHO.

Is it then people's position that only high paid immigrants should be allowed in so they are net contributors?

Yes and don't need social housing or housing benefit

Thus preventing those born here from obtaining those high paid positions and being net contributors.

The racists among the Brexiteers will no doubt be delighted that instead of allowing free entry to mostly white EC citizens that the skilled jobs they filled are now filled by Indians and Africans from the old Commonwealth. Ironic, that.

I see. My high-paid position, and my DH's, were both advertised. No British people came forward or were found suitable. We are paid the same as anyone else, in fact DH is paid more because he has specialised experience.

As I said earlier in the thread, posters seem to be very divided on what makes a good immigrant. Earn too little and you are a drain, earn too much and you have taken the job from a British person.

My DS is in a Russell Group university studying a science subject that demands 4 A, in practice anyway. His friends include incredibly hard working Chinese students who have 5 or even 6A. When these students graduate, any country would be lucky to have them. If the UK wants them to go home, I guess they will be going to the US or Canada to work on the next cure for cancer, or particle physics, or medicine.

Immigrants are not a monolith.

I meant Astars above. Not As!

I think we have had a lot of immigrants who are a net drain and that is the issue for me especially when there is such a housing crisis and this has impacted on the birth rate because the people already here struggle to afford a family

Highly skilled people are great if they are needed

I dont believe it is necessary to bring in people from abroad to do care work. I think we could recruit plenty in this country if we drastically improved pay and conditions, and put a stop to the the exploitation and sharp working practises that employers are notorious for in this sector. There have already been issues with unsuitable and untrained carers being sent out to people's homes.

it would surely be a lot cheaper than the nutty situation we have now where to recruit one low paid worker, we allow her to bring in all her dependants, and apply for settled status after five years!

Besides which, I'm not arguing for zero immigration, far from it. Hundreds of thousands of people leave the country each year, I'm happy for hundreds of thousands to replace them. How far we go over net zero immigration is a discussion to be had, but i really hope most people would think adding 745k people to the population through immigration, as we did last year, and are on course to do again this year, is far too many.

I'm not nearly so bothered about the financial costs of high immigration as i am about the environmental costs. It pains me to see our beautiful countryside being concreted over. We're cutting down our rainforests, and killing our rhinos, and nobody seems to care!

The thing was pre Brexit- we had 'mainly' young single people coming for a few years, but often leaving too after a few years - we also had more migration outwards- because it was much much easier to do so. Younger single people put less pressure on housing as many will flat share/house share and less need for schooling nor are they constantly at the GPs! Initially there was an influx in the early 2000s of Romanians and Bulgarians who did come in families, but many actually left once they realised that it wasn't the land of milk and honey and was actually quite expensive to live in- crap weather too!!

The fact is if you attract and offer visas to extended families from poorer destinations the chances are they make more demands on the system resources and will probably be staying put --unless on fixed term contracts.

Personally if Starmer gets in I would be setting up some kind of Norway type deal, specific to UK- call it the 'British/EU alliance' or something - keep it separate but bring back FOM and single market/customs. I honestly think 70% of people really wouldn't give a shit these days- they've had the Brexit taster- absolute bullshit regarding advantages- but many feel embarrassed to admit they were had. It would instantly hugely boost the economy and balance out immigration- my FILs partner was cared for when terminally ill by 3 lovely Lithuanian young women- all have returned back- they had to jump through hoops to remain- where initially told they didn't earn enough , only for the gvt to change the rules at the point a lot of EU people had left to go elsewhere.

Get processing centres on French soil for those claiming asylum etc , sort it out at that end- French have offered - we have been refusing it as we would have to pay. I think the current situation suits the Tory's nicely- keeps up the flow of pages in Mail and Express- keeps immigration high on the agenda and in voters minds- stuff like the Rwanda thing suits them even if they know it's all bollocks and can't go ahead -plays to the right wing - detracts from Brexit and the fact they couldn't govern Surrey - never mind the country!!

Nurses etc are allowed to bring in dependent family members as well as partner.
Its on the all the recruiting websites as well as Gov.uk.

You even said it yourself on a previous post.

@DogsDinner that's a difficult one because say you paid £15 an hour- that's actually close to a £30k a year job- which is around the pay of a lot of nurses - I personally don't think that's fair when one requires 3 years study and loans and the other one doesn't- it would also make many nursing homes non viable- so unless we do far more state funding if them it would cause an issue- it really isn't black and white- and I'm not sure you are right about attracting people either-plenty of people simply don't want to do it, don't want shifts , don't enjoy working with old people and aren't suited to the job -

If SM is preferred it should be offered in GE not ‘it won’t happen’ as stated. Electorate need to give their vote.

Get processing centres on French soil for those claiming asylum

How many would apply if you did this?

How many of the net 745k migrants are at Russel group Uni's or the Crick Institute working in medicine or cancer cures?

We need a policy that attracts the best here BUT at the same time promotes UK citizens into training and work for the roles that unskilled or semi skilled migrants are doing at present

Personally, i'd reverse the the HK policy, the vast majority would fail any refugee test - how can it be right that Afghans who risked their lives to support the British can't come here but anyone in HK with a BNO passport can come plus their children too?

No idea @jasflowers, but I was specifically responding to the poster who said that even the "best" immigrants are taking jobs away from Brits. That's such an antiquated notion in 2023.

Personally, I am in favour of regulated immigration, but at the same time, I am sure you can understand that I feel very uncomfortable when people are divided into "good immigrants" and "bad immigrants.". Often, on extremely arbitrary criteria.

small boats is a distraction technique much like austerity was.

@EasternStandard possibly some but not that many. If they hadn't applied and they fully had the opportunity to do so and be assessed fairly, I would personally at that point have no issue in sending them on the next plane to their home turf.

I personally think Labour should have closer alliance in their manifesto- however a bit like 'leave the EU' could have meant all kinds of options, so can closer alliance. With a virtual right wing media monopoly I wouldn't be giving all my strategy away either.

They did ‘give their strategy away’ it’s a blunt no to the SM and CU. Labour need to be clear and stop using the media as a poor us they’ll be mean excuse.

If as you say no one will give a shit just run with it and let people vote on SM or CU at a GE. As people keep posting the polls show regret or apparently so many are suffering embarrassment. Go for it then. However they can’t as they’ve repeated many times they’ve ruled both out.

As for other issue and not many will apply sadly I think you are too removed from reality here.

Also look at general EU sentiment on immigration, even Labour can’t sweep that incoming reality away by calling the biggest change for a long time ‘culture wars’ or whatever bollocks term. People in Germany, Ireland, the Netherlands, Italy wherever will be talking about it, good luck if Labour think they’re immune.

@EasternStandard I don't agree with mass unfettered immigration either by the way- I do think it is an issue for everywhere 'western' - that doesn't mean to say I think the Tory's have handled it well - my own view is I think Brexit has made the situation worse- I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I didn’t vote for Brexit so you may be making an incorrect assumption there.

Not sure it’s a disagreement if you didn’t either

However I think we’re seeing accelerating change and what worked previously will probably need to change.