To think that net immigration…

[Libertass]

Of 745,000 people a year isn’t what the 17 million people who voted for Brexit in 2016 thought they were voting for?

YABU = Yes, this is what Leave supporters voted for.

YANBI = No, they didn’t vote for this.

Not according to the India student interviewed and if its a 3 or 5 year course, what good is one year of funds?
What about the 2 or 3 years they can stay after the course has finished?

You ve started off saying i was wrong and then pretty much agreed with me!!!

The point here isn't the students or the workers its that they can bring in their family too, why?

It was a choice of this government to allow families of students to move with them.

So you are not prepared to stop and ask why there are so many empty homes often with overseas owners that the UK has no record of. Fair enough.

I am not sure why you think that each migrant would need their own home. Indeed part of the housing distribution crisis involves people living in smaller family units than they have done historically.

Quite why it is communist to point out a fact I am not sure. But Jeremy Corbyn.

@jasflowers I may know the answer to why?

Because the current government favours mass migration?

Which point would you like to discuss?
It would help if others dropped the insults

Can you point to where I have suggested seizing people's homes?

The dependant thing is changing in Jan 2024 isn’t it?

Unions were unhappy about changes

3.8%? Well that may be but I live in a semi-rural area on edge of Peak District, the population is just under 19,000. In the last 5 years we have had 500 new homes built, one is just about to start for 600, another is in build with 100 houses, another planning permission granted for 200, and smaller developments add up to about 300. That’s 1,700 new homes just in my immediate area which I calculate to be just under 10% so where is the need coming from, according to your figures we’ll have a surplus of 6% of housing stock then?

How many villages in Yorkshire have homes that are empty for all or large parts of the year?
That information may lead to the answer of your question.

No empty homes here, we’re not a holiday area, but my immediate area is semi rural and the level of building and on green belt which despite being strongly opposed has still been granted permission is at crazy levels.

jgw1
So you are not prepared to stop and ask why there are so many empty homes often with overseas owners that the UK has no record of.

What sort of properties do they own? Luxury flats in Manchester and smart London townhouses? Can I have first dibs on a townhouse in Belgravia? Redistribution could work for me.

I didn't agree with you.

I honestly don't care what the Indian student who was interviewed said. Maybe she got it wrong or maybe you misunderstood. All I am telling you is that the immigration rules require that specified maintenance costs must be demonstrated for the first year. And yes, I agree that it's weird that they don't require proof for subsequent years, but given that the largest group of international students has always been those on one-year masters courses, this isn't quite the big deal that you're making it out to be. And as far as I'm aware, the one-year requirement is common to Canada and Australia, which were being held up as examples that the UK should follow.

As for bringing family, most students can't now, and some of them never could. The only ones who will be able to bring dependants going forward are the ones who are fully funded/sponsored by overseas governments (who cover the costs for all of their families as well) or those doing higher level research degrees, and even then they will need to be able to demonstrate that they have the means to be able to support their families, pay the extra NHS surcharges etc.

Why are they still allowed to bring their spouses and children? Because the universities want to attract top talent onto their PhD programmes, and not many of those top researchers will choose to come here if it means being apart from their families for an extended period. The government judges that it's better to have those highly talented individuals here than have them take their talents elsewhere.

From May this year

‘Under proposals released in parliament on Tuesday, overseas students will no longer be able to bring family with them except under specific circumstances as the government seeks to reduce immigration numbers.

Only overseas students on courses designated as research programmes, such as PhD students or research-led masters courses, will be able to bring dependants with them under new rules to curb net migration.

Reacting to the proposals, a lecturers’ union said they were “deeply shameful” and anti-migrant, while universities said they would disproportionately affect women and people from certain countries.’

Basically someone will say it’s bad whatever whether they’re allowed or not

I think it’s not necessary

Why are they still allowed to bring their spouses and children? Because the universities want to attract top talent onto their PhD programmes

This makes sense

Pp make it sound like loads of dependants are coming

No need to aspire to it. You’ve well and truly managed it.

I must say I am delighted and truly hope that you are correct that my net popularity is -40.
But Jeremy Corbyn on -35 still has some way to go yet.

Yeah, the numbers really aren't that high at all, and they never have been. I think they have only changed the rules because the numbers had recently started to increase.

On balance, I don't object to the idea of limiting it to PhD students. It probably will impact disproportionately on women from certain countries who might otherwise have been able to travel to the UK for a master's programme, and that's a shame because those countries probably need to offer more opportunities for women, not less. But I do think the master's route is open to abuse in a way that is very unlikely at PhD level, so overall it seems reasonable.

Most overseas students study for 1 year degrees at masters level, the current rules, that were changed by this government to allow it permit them to bring their families with them and stay for 2 years after they have graduated.

Why are they still allowed to bring their spouses and children? Because the universities want to attract top talent onto their PhD programmes, and not many of those top researchers will choose to come here if it means being apart from their families for an extended period. The government judges that it's better to have those highly talented individuals here than have them take their talents elsewhere

You do, you think they should have funds for the entirety of their course.

Anyway, how many of the 600k students that come to the UK are on PhD programs?
It was 98k, so why are the remain 500k allowed too as well? why are carers? bricklayers? etc etc t
How many of the 98k are top researchers?

Perhaps the Govt doesn't care whether they are beneficial to the UK or not & that they'd rather use them, whatever they study, to fund UK Uni's.

I think you re giving the Govts thought process rather too much credit, after all, they never gave a fig to the loss of EU scientists by leaving the EU and then getting kicked out of Horizon.

It's rare I agree with you @Clavinova although in this case I do- although I can say they also own plenty of 2 bed flats here in Bath !

In the interests of communist factual accuracy here are the rules around the money that overseas students need to have.

https://www.gov.uk/student-visa/money

Pp make it sound like loads of dependants are coming

Ummm they are, which is why they propose to change the rules, not just students either but those on work visa's too.

Actually, its quite shocking, look how many from the EU come here with dependents, wonder why that is?

^Dependants of sponsored study visa holders*
In the year ending March 2023, almost one quarter (24%) of all sponsored study related visas granted were to dependants of students (149,400), compared to 15% (72,062) in the year ending March 2022, as shown in Figure 4.4 Sept 2023

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-study#:~:text=Dependants%20of%20sponsored%20study%20visa%20holders,-Sponsored%20study%20visa&text=In%20the%20year%20ending%20March%202023%2C%20almost%20one%20quarter%20(24,as%20shown%20in%20Figure%204.

@jasflowers certainly in the building I had my desk in it was wives (or husbands). 2 or 3 children and sometimes a grandparent too trailing through the door. Struck me as total nuts. On the rare occasion I saw an EU person or Australian etc, they were nearly always by themselves