To think that net immigration…

[Libertass]

Of 745,000 people a year isn’t what the 17 million people who voted for Brexit in 2016 thought they were voting for?

YABU = Yes, this is what Leave supporters voted for.

YANBI = No, they didn’t vote for this.

Crikeyalmighty
I personally am more comfortable with a flow of EU citizens too and fro (and reciprocal) than having the pressurised need to take large families from developing countries (and not so developed) I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to some. It's unlikely we would have a glut of French or German or Danish families rushing to use their FOM.

Why single out French, German or Danish families? Why not Polish and Romanian families?

Language, England and Wales: Census 2021

• The most common main languages, other than English (English or Welsh in Wales), were: Polish (1.1%, 612,000), Romanian (0.8%, 472,000), Panjabi (0.5%, 291,000), and Urdu (0.5%, 270,000).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/language/bulletins/languageenglandandwales/census2021

Less than 150,000. Not that many in the grand scheme of things, given that most are here for very temporary periods and then return. But it is more than we are used to seeing, which is why they have changed the rules.

I don't know why you think the link you provided was only in relation to the EU?

@jasflowers, do you think people on work visas should be prohibited from bringing their immediate family members?

So, overseas doctors, for example, shouldn't be permitted to bring their partners and children?

Good luck getting the skilled personnel to come here then... I'm sure you'll be happy to go to the back of the queue for medical care if we can't get the staff?

If the Uk didn't just import skilled people to fill gaps, then perhaps the government would have to invest in the education of people born here?

jgw1
But Jeremy Corbyn

But Jeremy Corbyn is relevant to most discussions - his second wife is the daughter of Chilean exiles and his current wife is from Mexico;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hard-left-candidates-wife-sells-coffee-for-pound10-but-the-farmers-get-just-93p-n2m6ctrdjfp

I don't know why you're talking about carers and bricklayers? What do they have to do with students, exactly?

Not all students were permitted to bring dependants under the old rules in any case. It used to be that all postgraduate students could bring family. Now that's changed so that it's only research students, ie no taught master's students. Again, I think the same logic probably applied about attracting top talent, but as the number of master's courses has expanded, that argument became a bit less valid.

Well, yes, I agree with investing better in education and training in the UK. However, that won't change overnight, and the current government doesn't even seem that interested in getting started.

We can't just stop immigration and then start addressing skills gaps. The work on education and training needs to happen first.

He certainly is. Another of your heros I am sure.
Another poster was quite upset by the mention of But Jeremy Corbyn.

I doubt many countries take Drs etc without their families

The need is mad though

1 in 11 employed by NHS by 2036

So many aging and not best health for many either

jasflowers
745k legal migrants all with visas

Not all:
Asylum seekers (included in ONS estimates)

We have included asylum applicants (76,000 for 2022)

It is such a shame that we have a government that isn't the least bit interested in public health.
Just don't mention that the Health Secretary is married to sugar.

Workers such as construction and carers are also included in this 745k, workers coming into the UK cover a vast range, not just Doctors & can apply to bring in dependent parents too.

Someone coming to the UK for 9 to 12months study, doesn't need to bring their entire family with them.

Bringing in Doctors etc from some of the worlds poorest countries and against UN advice, isn't reducing waiting lists in any case.

How many of the 76k have now got visas.

And tbh, 670k net migration is still unsustainable.

As i said earlier, quite a trick to treble migration but still have Labour and skills shortages!

Are people healthier in Wales or Scotland?

Not sure they are under those devolved health systems

But we were talking about students.

And yes, other workers - who we have decided that our country needs because we haven't been able to recruit UK workers to fill these roles- are allowed to bring their immediate family members. Do you think that the rules for carers and construction workers should be different from those for doctors? Do carers and construction workers not have the right to a family life? What exactly are we going to do when we take that right away and those workers choose to go elsewhere instead?

And I agree that someone coming to study for 9 months doesn't need their entire family with them (though a master's programme is typically 12 full months, but whatever.) That's why I said above that I didn't object to the change of rules re dependants for postgraduate taught students.

As for bringing in dependant parents, that has never been an option for all categories of immigrant. It only applies to those with settled status in the UK, and then only in certain clearly defined circumstances.

And yes, I agree that we should stop poaching medical personnel from developing countries. We need to massively expand opportunities for UK students to train in these fields, but that requires a huge investment and takes time. What do you propose we should do in the interim?

Crikeyalmighty
I personally have far more faith though in Yvette Cooper to actually take an objective look at the whole situation...

We do have far too much legal migration at the moment

Yvette Cooper was interviewed last night - she refused to say that legal migration was far too high.

As for Keir Starmer - he said this in 2021;

I will let in 100,000 foreign lorry drivers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/26/keir-starmer-will-let-100000-foreign-lorry-drivers/

Doubt those lorry drivers would want to come here given the fun & games at our ports since Brexit (and knowing that those checks will only get more stringent when they finally fully implement it).

www.reuters.com/world/europe/britain-delays-post-brexit-border-checks-eu-goods-till-2024-2023-08-29/

Maybe we should rely more on our railways? We've got a great track record there (pun intended).

Some countries do young people visas for a limited time for those with funds, so you get single person low dependant, usually low healthcare needs and work plus holiday

Might blow the figures out though numbers wise

Although we probably have UK people here who could do a fair bit of it

I thought the thread was about net migration, not purely overseas students.

On workers, did EU citizens bring in their parents etc no, we filled these shortages with annual net migration of about 200 to 250k.

We left the EU and now have to face the new reality of huge numbers of migrants from many different cultures, bringing family dependents who will never leave the UK, meaning we'll need more migrants to look after them and so on.

We aren't just taking HCPs from dev countries, we are taking them from countries against UN rules as these countries are so poor.

I d go with "what to do in the interim" but we aren't doing this, not at all and many of the ones we do train, leave the NHS, so we take more from other countries.

We have reciprocal working holiday visas in place with a number of countries.

Presumably the current Home Secretary and government also don't think that migration to the UK is to high, otherwise they would have done something about it by now.

The thread is about net migration, but the post you quoted was specifically about students and their dependants.

And yes, we made a stupid decision to leave the EU and it certainly hasn't reduced out net migration figures at all. I remain deeply frustrated about that decision but I can't change it now.

And yes, it's ridiculous that we aren't training more doctors and nurses, and that we're not doing enough to keep the ones that we've got. We desperately need a change of government in order to address these issues.

However, in my view, it is the incompetence and ideological stance of our current government that is the main problem here, and not net migration per se.

9 May 2023 — Two years on from acute shortage of truckers, the sector has resolved the crisis through higher wages and skills 'boot camps'

https://www.ft.com/content/13a0a9f5-5db6-488c-9860-18bd74fd2572

We should be working towards a higher wage economy although some might disagree because of the initial cost rises.

jgw1
Presumably the current Home Secretary and government also don't think that migration to the UK is too high, otherwise they would have done something about it by now.

The current Home Secretary has only held the position for two weeks but the previous Home Secretary did make some changes as mentioned by previous posters;
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/news/international-students-no-longer-able-bring-dependants-uk-student-visas

I assume you are not familiar with the concept of collective cabinet responsibility?