*trigger* was this a thing in the 90s?

[Buxton87]

I was only 20 (1996) when I had my first 'exam' at the doctors when I said I might be pregnant.

The doctor laid me on the table - said I was probably twenty weeks as per the last date of my period (my dad had died the same year - I was not in a great place). But the thing is, he told me to take off my top to examine my breasts. Was this a normal thing back then??

My partner at the time was waiting in reception. My son is amazing and we co-parented after only two years together, but everything has been good.

I had another child 15 years later and it was a totally different experience (NHS-wise!) It's been almost thirty years and I'm still upset about it.

I'm an intelligent person and I'm still so angry at the person I was then to not speak up.

So my AIBU:
AIBU - make a complaint
YABU - Forget about it, man!

Same thing happened to me as an A Level student. I applied for a teaching degree and had to have a medical. The Dr at the time said it was "usual". As a naive 18 year old I didn't say No but felt violated for years. This was 1990

I agree with your post, I did post upthread saying I am also from another country and I have never felt uncomfortable during an exam. But the Dr does say in advance what he will do, perhaps communication was lacking is some instances here. I have never had, nor asked for a chaperone to be present as never felt the need.

I'd say that's two sides of a similar coin, the way women (and in your case a young girl) are dismissed, made to be "lesser". They didn't believe you because you were a female child and maybe your parents didn't or couldnt advocate for you. I've had this happen with my own daughters, we'd sit in a GP surgery and be told that they were making up every possible symptom they had, whatever it was. Later on in their late teens/early 20s they've often felt humiliated or belittled by medical staff.

I'd say the touching, the sexual abuse aspect people are reporting above is also about humiliation, being able to control someone and know that their word won't be believed or they are too scared to report something.

It happened to me but it was the 70s, only happened with the first pregnancy and only happened when I was a teenager. Not sure if that means anything but I had another baby in the 70s and it didn't happen.

Strange thinking back to it but at the time you couldn't just buy a pregnancy test and doctor didn't do one and he said changes to my breast indicated I was likely pregnant but it was too soon to feel the baby in my womb.

In the 00s my mother was sexually assaulted by a gynaecologist responsible for her hysterectomy. She never mentioned it until many years later he had been accused by other women and ended up taking his own life.

I've had 4 and no midwife has ever offered me anything for my nipples. I am a red head, I did have inverted nipples, doctor did give me shields to correct that. Maybe I wasn't examined in subsequent pregnancies as I had successfully breast fed the first.

It was standard practice 40 or so years ago that any gyne procedure included a breast exam. It was later stopped because it lacked evidence of its ability to detect breast lumps any better than a woman herself could. It took a while for that message to get across.

I heard junior doctors refer to it as a TUBE in jest (totally unnecessary breast exam). This was back in the 80's and even then I was uncomfortable with it.

Yep, early 2000s, in my early 20s and still a virgin. GP coerced me into a smear test - which was unnecessary as I was very low risk and I was below the screening age anyway. This was excruciatingly painful and caused lasting problems requiring surgery to fix.

Then she demanded I take my top and bra off and had a good feel and squeeze of my breasts. So I was totally naked.

Massively inappropriate, really poor practice. She was one of that previous era of GPs who don't listen to the patient at all.

Also, I can't help wondering why the change from examining breasts to identify potential problems breastfeeding to the current practice of telling women we can all EBF?!

This is an article from 1998 that discusses the just released advice to stop performing routine checks.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/health-hands-off-my-chest-doctor-1177987.html

I had my fourth DC in Spain (early 2000’s) and was given a breast exam at my first pre-natal appointment with the (female) gynae. Seemed to be normal practice there at the time although it hadn’t happened with my previous pregnancies in the UK.

I had my DS when I was 18 in 1990. I remember having quite a few internal examinations quite early on in the pregnancy. I was surprised when I had my other children that this didn't happen to the same extent, anymore.

I went on a date with a doctor about 12 years ago, he told me (laughing) about 'TUBEs' - Totally Unnecessary Breasts Examinations and that it was an in joke with the male doctors. I didn't see him again it knocked me sick.

I was groped by a doctor when I was 15, I can still hear his horrible heavy breathing as he lifted up my rather grubby little white broderie angalaise bra and rubbed my breasts. That was decades ago but typing this has made me feel sick. He did the same thing to a friend of mine, we never told anyone, in those days who would you tell, who would have believed us?

This is one of the reasons I hate seeing male doctors (and also because I was groped by one when I was 15). They may appear professional but how can you know what they may really be thinking.

In the 90s I was referred to gynae at the age of 14 due to issues with my periods. He told me he needed to examine me but not what that would entail and the next thing I knew he roughly shoved a finger and then two up my vagina. It felt very rough which makes me wonder if he was wearing gloves or not. It hurt and shocked me. I'm pretty sure that an internal examination might have been needed but the way it was handled was bad. At 14, I'd never inserted anything up there and it was a very negative experience that scared me off having sex for a long time ('if a finger hurts that much, how the hell does one get a penis in there' was my line of thinking). It was a very effective contraceptive for a very long time.

In the 90s I had to go to the hospital to speak to a consultant about cholesterol. During that I ended up having a breast examination! I was in my 20s and a bit naive so didn't question it but I remember being a bit shocked. I remember there was a nurse around so I thought it was normal practice to check.....but...a breast exam when you go about cholesterol??!
I don't remember him lingering or anything but I do often wonder if I was subtly abused.

I think whether it was standard practice or not is besides the point. Abusers can still use the facade of standard practice in order to commit abuse.
I think if you feel that what happened went beyond a reasonable medical examination you should consider whether you want to report it or not.

I remember when I had my firstborn in the mid eighties and I went to an ante natal check. The nurse told me that the gynaecologist wanted to see me and to undress and pop myself on the examination couch.
I did this and the next thing, the gynaecologist burst in with some medical students and after whipping the blanket away, leaving me naked and vulnerable with a sizeable bump, shoved my feet in the holders and shoved his fingers inside me while barking ' this woman has a good broad beam, perfect for giving birth '
Then he twisted both of my nipples hard while barking ' perfect feeders'
I have never felt so humiliated and embarrassed. I got home and cried buckets.
After that I always refused to see him and I always took my mum with me.
There is absolutely no reason, ever, for women to be treated like pieces of meat at a medical appointment, whatever the era.

Back in the day, I think breast examinations were quite common during pregnancy. When I had my own children, I remember reading in a pregnancy book that it was part of the antenatal checks.

A kind word and explanation of why you were having an examination would have made the whole experience more understandable rather than feeling violated though.

Unfortunately it was doctor’s attitudes during that era that were often dreadful. No bedside manner and their word was final. Patients did not query why these tests were performed because it wasn’t the done thing to question your GP. Sadly, it did leave the door open to abuse in some cases.

I have also had a Breast exam by the GP I don't believe was inappropriate but I did make me wonder why a GP would ever do a breast exam so Im suprised so many say it was standard.

My experience:

I went to the GP about 10 years ago (I was in my 20s by then so not a young teen) and was undergoing hormone treatment for infertility. I had developed a huge growth in my breast overnight (to the point it stretched and malformed my boob). I obviously went about my breast so it was not remotely inappropriate for that to be investigated and they brought in a nurse chaperone to be confirm consent and be in the room.

However the GP said he couldn't feel anything. We told him there was DEFINITELY a change, he then changed it to maybe he could feel something (in the wrong breast) and he would refer to the breast clinic for my peace of mind and scans (I have ultrasounds not mammograms due to age and small breasts).

Turned out I had large egg sized Cystosarcoma and ended up having a partial mastectomy. Still blows my mind he seemingly couldn't locate it when you could physically SEE it sticking out of my breast and I told him exactly where it was.

I am now listed as being 'cystic' with a high risk of regrowth so to be automatically refereed direct to the breast clinic if I notice any change.

GP was clearly was not an expert in women's breasts (but why would he be hes just a GP, not a breast surgeon) so whats the point on him doing an exam hes not really qualified for when he could have just referred me regardless. I'm not mad about the exam, I don't feel it was done creepy or inappropriately but I think the system of getting past someone not qualified to make that call before referral is a bit ridiculous.

100 percent.

all these sad and devastating accounts though of abuse though I don’t feel is helpful to the op, as unless she says it was sexualised she was not in the same boat. It was a very common examination 30 or 40 years ago for pregnant woman at this stage in their pregnancy. With a perfectly valid reason at the time.

the issue here is the op didn’t seem to understand why it was being done, and didn’t feel able to say no. Possibly as she was only 20.

doctors decades ago did used to just often carry on and not properly explain. Some still do but it is less prevalent. It is sad though she had no females in her life she could ask though , who could have put her mind at rest. Instead she’s carried this for 3 decades.

Unfortunately there is only one way to learn and that was by doing hundreds of examinations on normal breasts. I am sure GPs are les practiced at identifing problems clinically now. Just different times.

@Cosywintertime I agree a lot of it was down to the medical education and culture of the time. I remember my 78-year-old mother telling us she was in hospital after having her youngest and not even knowing exactly why she was there. She knows it was an infection of some sort because she got penicillin, but she said when she asked the consultant he just said "Don't worry about it, we will get you right as rain in no time" No explanation was given and wasn't the done thing to question the doctors, so they just continued, totally failing to see the person in the bed as someone with fears or concerns.

They would refer to patients as "The kidney in bed 4" It was generally very dehumanising. I think a lot was down to the prevailing feeling that doctors had to remain distant and aloof and not show feelings. They became detached from their patients. They were taught this was how they should be.
They very rarely asked for consent, they just told a patient what they were going to do and people accepted it.

I wonder if different health trusts offer different things? We have a lot in common! I struggled with feeding every time, despite the nipple guards. When did you have your children? Mine were the 1980s and rotosept spray was routinely offered to blondes and redheads (and others if their nipples bled).

Times and practices have changed so much.