*trigger* was this a thing in the 90s?

[Buxton87]

I was only 20 (1996) when I had my first 'exam' at the doctors when I said I might be pregnant.

The doctor laid me on the table - said I was probably twenty weeks as per the last date of my period (my dad had died the same year - I was not in a great place). But the thing is, he told me to take off my top to examine my breasts. Was this a normal thing back then??

My partner at the time was waiting in reception. My son is amazing and we co-parented after only two years together, but everything has been good.

I had another child 15 years later and it was a totally different experience (NHS-wise!) It's been almost thirty years and I'm still upset about it.

I'm an intelligent person and I'm still so angry at the person I was then to not speak up.

So my AIBU:
AIBU - make a complaint
YABU - Forget about it, man!

They called it a "TUBE"- totally unnecessary breast exam. It was a thing, by men who didn't see patients, but especially women, as fully human.

It's disgusting, I'm sorry it happened to you. If it helps, it happened to many, the culture has shifted dramatically, and you can always request a female clinician.

You're assuming that all doctors are male?
For the record, my doctor for my second pregnancy (breast check done, as per the first) was female.

I had a baby in 1998 and had my boobs checked. Male doctor. No female staff there.
2 years later I had another baby, they did an internal while I was pregnant to confirm the pregnancy and then when the baby was six weeks old. That was with a female doctor.

Yes, very proud.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/health-hands-off-my-chest-doctor-1177987.html

It was a thing.

I had this in the early 90s. I was about 19. Dr gave me a breast exam for a totally unrelated condition.

Well if she hasn’t been sexually assaulted maybe her husband/boyfriend wouldn’t need to do that. Don’t say some bullshit about how she should have reported it, bla bla bla. Look into the stats of sexual assault convictions and you can see why victims don’t bother reporting.

If the doctor was a gynaecologist, this was standard in the 1990s in the Americas. Every smear, every visit about BC pills (you had to be checked annually to renew the prescription), the prepregancy health check, any health issue where you thought you might be pregnant or might have period problems or a cyst or fibroids or whatever all came with a full breast exam if you hadn’t had one for a few months.

It sounds pervy now and they were never comfortable, but I do recall they all followed the same, lie flat on my back, start at nipple and work in a spiral outwards finishing with checking lymph node in armpit. Repeat on other breast. So they were checking for lumps. I never had a doctor that made a meal of it, the ones I had were professional and clearly were not enjoying it.

This was before the medical establishment either decided to trust women do the breast exams ourselves or couldn’t be arsed to increase the chances of catching breast cancer in women.

This thread makes me shudder, just how as young women we were so used to just taking it, afraid to say anything.
I think that’s what is standing out for me. Was/wasn’t it a relevant test? Debatable.
But it seems all these Drs just told young-in some cases extremely young, women to just take off their top and bra and sit there whilst they felt their breasts. No explanation, no discussion, no consent. That’s the issue for me. It’s disgusting. Really feel for all affected by this. I have a million stories of being felt up etc, and worse, but never this, thank goodness.

By that logic, every time you go to the doctor for any reason they should check for every possible condition. Personally, if rather be treated as an adult allowed to make my own decisions about what screening tests and examinations I wanted.

My first pregnancy was in the mid 90s, and I don't recall the GP doing any physical examinations beyond the occasional height of fundus check. Everything was passed on to the midwife team.
I've never had any kind of intimate examination by a male practitioner without the presence of a female chaperone.

Thinking back, I think my GP's TUBEs may have stopped after my title got changed from Mrs to Dr, along with him acquiring the ability to talk to me like an intelligent adult.

To bring in a different cultural perspective from a Northern European country. I had a full examination every time I went to the gyno. Female Chaperone and mother (if I wanted) always present. Similar with lots of other doctors, for example the dermatologist checking for moles required stripping naked (no chaperone). I never once felt any of this to be inappropriate. They were doctors and I assumed that they needed to collect data by looking at my body to help with my care.

I was shocked that in the UK lots of doctors were seemingly trying to avoid touching or seeing my body at all costs. I once went to the Gp worried about a lump in my breast and then preceded to examine my breast through my wooly jumper (and even for that the GP had to call a chaperone in).

I don’t want to invalidate anybody’s experiences. I am sure there were and are predatory doctors out there. However, there can be valid non-pervy reasons. I think that the cultural framing in the UK where nudity = sexualisation has a role to play here.

Except most young women won’t know if their nipples are inverted or not. It’s not like they will have had a chance to study a range of nipples. The name inverted nipple doesn’t exactly describe what they look like. It’s not like an in or out belly button. Someone with medical knowledge should have a peek. Same with breastfeeding, you can’t simply ask a new mother if the latch is correct because most new mothers don’t really know.

When I went on the pill, around 1988, the female doctor asked me if she’d like me to do a breast exam and show me how to do it. I agreed to that. I had my babies in 1994 and 1996, no one examined my breasts, ever. The only time anyone saw them, both times, was when I’d just given birth and they were helping me with breast feeding.

I had no tests, examinations, or anything else to confirm either pregnancy. My GP, at the time, told me that the pregnancy tests were reliable so they went with that.

I know this thread is throwing up some really awful experiences and probably a lot of “was it or wasn’t it “abuse issues and “was it or wasn’t it “ normal medical practise but the gp may have been checking your hymen…cystitis/recurrent infections in a child can be a sign of sexual abuse.

Except most young women won’t know if their nipples are inverted or not. It’s not like they will have had a chance to study a range of nipples. The name inverted nipple doesn’t exactly describe what they look like. It’s not like an in or out belly button. Someone with medical knowledge should have a peek.

So show the woman some pictures. If she isn't sure then a midwife could check during an antenatal visit. It's not something a GP needs to do.

@shmivorytower
Similar with lots of other doctors, for example the dermatologist checking for moles required stripping naked (no chaperone).

Yes, I have this too. body skin check every year for life. I had my first when I was 16. This includes close up photographs by the way of every bit of your naked body. They also have a sort of light up magnifying glass and if a mole looks iffy will get almost nose touching close to you to look at it. This includes the moles on my groin, on my breasts…everywhere. Then it was come back in 3yrs or if any mole acts funny. The initial appointment was a crash course in what to look for and to document a baseline. At 26 I had melanoma which was surgically removed, chemo and plastic surgery done. More total body photos compared to baseline to ensure nothing missed. From then I now have full body skin check which includes photos and cross-checking using computer analysis annually for life to make sure the moles are not changing and using that they have caught a few other skin cancer lesions that I’ve have surgically removed, but no more melanomas.

? We are talking about gynaecologists or midwives or obstetricians during an appointment regarding pregnancy or contraception. We aren’t talking about GP appointments for a sore throat.

I agree with this. My dd20 has horrendous periods that leave her bed bound for half the month. She was referred to gynae and when she (finally) saw the doctor he told her that he wasn’t going to investigate as any ´intimate examination’ would be ‘distressing’ to someone so young. I think it’s gone too far the other way to the point that women can’t get medical treatment because doctors fear being labelled as perverts.

Unless you had reported a lump, it would be highly inappropriate to examine a woman in this way and when any kind of intimate examination was to take place, there should have been a chaperone in the room! It would be considered a "historic" complaint, but if it's really bothering you, you should say something. Who knows, your report could be one of many, and the tipping point in it being taken further....

We are talking about gynaecologists or midwives or obstetricians during an appointment regarding pregnancy or contraception. We aren’t talking about GP appointments for a sore throat.

We're talking about a number of things. In the OPs case there doesn't seem to have been a need for the doctor at her first appointment when she thought she might be pregnant ( that'd almost certainly be a GP in the UK system) to examine her breasts.

I always wondered when I found myself pregnant at 17 why the doctor needed to give me an internal examination when I went to get a termination. I was terrified. He said it was to check how far along I was, but I was able to tell him to the date when I had conceived and was also given a scan, so it seemed unnecessary. That was in 2000
I went on to have a baby years later and received no such internal examination. I wonder if that was supposed to happen?

There is no proof that discarding regular breast exams has been without ill effect. In fact there has been a significant rise from 2000 to 2015 in young women who develop breast cancer not being aware/diagnosed until stage 4!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TTEJiiy4w5c

2000 was roughly when the regular breast exams were scrapped. So perhaps they were not totally unnecessary after all.

It's not women's fault who just want to go to their GP and leave without feeling like they have been sexually abused, whatever the intention of the examination.

I had an internal examination at the family planning clinic when I was 17 and went to get the Pill. It wasn't traumatic as such but not very nice and I'm not sure that it would be done now.