*trigger* was this a thing in the 90s?

[Buxton87]

I was only 20 (1996) when I had my first 'exam' at the doctors when I said I might be pregnant.

The doctor laid me on the table - said I was probably twenty weeks as per the last date of my period (my dad had died the same year - I was not in a great place). But the thing is, he told me to take off my top to examine my breasts. Was this a normal thing back then??

My partner at the time was waiting in reception. My son is amazing and we co-parented after only two years together, but everything has been good.

I had another child 15 years later and it was a totally different experience (NHS-wise!) It's been almost thirty years and I'm still upset about it.

I'm an intelligent person and I'm still so angry at the person I was then to not speak up.

So my AIBU:
AIBU - make a complaint
YABU - Forget about it, man!

I saw a consultant in 1996 when I was 16 for bladder problems.
He made me take my knickers off and bend over while he sat behind me in a chair. I remember feeling so awkward.
He had his female secretary in the next room who he could have used as a chaperone.

I do wonder if it was necessary, how could he see my bladder from there?

I'd rather that a doctor examined my breasts than discover a year later that I have a late stage cancer that could have been treated earlier.

But only if its a genuine exam though, right?

Not if he's just copping a feel of a young girl to get his rocks off - which is what this thread is discussing.

I do need to start work ( jurrasic NHS computer booting up or not...) but he couldn't have used his secutary as a chaperone, it would need to be a HCP. However I cannot see how that was clincally appropriate.

I don't think we know that. IME " coping a feel" is very different from a clinical breast exam, but to an anxious 19yo they both be experienced as unwanted physical contact.

Why have you taken offence to this?

It's a commonly used term.

There are lots of terrible stories here, but they are almost all nothing to do with the example in the OP.

Yes it was normal to have a breast check during pregnancy back then (or at least when I was pregnant in the very late 1980s). They checked for inverted nipples, and general lumps and bumps, as breast growth during pregnancy can hide them. I was advised to do my own checks more often during pregnancy.

Good thread OP. So necessary. I have a medical phobia caused by a sexual assault by an older doctor when I visited a surgery as a teenager in the 1990 for thrush. Part of this involved him saying I needed a physical examination and smear test despite being a virgin. I was too innocent to know what was going on - it went way beyond examination so I won’t describe here.
Afterwards he said he would get a nurse in as a chaperone and then pretended nothing had already happened and did an examination again, obviously, in hindsight, covering for the ‘examination’ he did first without her being there. I was left in tears and bleeding. I remember at the time that the nurse seemed uncomfortable.

It all came out years later during pre-natal care when my lovely female doctor asked me to tell her why I couldn’t face being examined. She encouraged me to report him - she even knew which doctor this was and I think she knew I wasn’t the only one - but I regret that I didn’t report him, because I didn’t want this horrible man to be in my thoughts when I was preparing for a baby, which should be a happy time.
Hugs to those who have been through similar.

When I was 17 I started having heart palpitations (turned out to be stress related after having several deaths of close family members in just a few months).
Explained the problem and he asked to listen to my back (stood behind me) with the stethoscope, ok no problem. Breathe in, breathe out and all that. All good. Then without warning or asking he suddenly thrust his hand with the stethoscope into my left bra cup, when I jumped and looked shocked at him he said listening to your heart. His finger brushed my nipple when he pulled his hand out. When he went to wash his hands after the examination he rearranged his undercarriage.
I felt awful but didn't think anyone would believe me at the time and quite honestly don't think I'd get anywhere with it now as he's head of the practice and quite respected in the community. Also feel quite torn as I suppose the nipple brush could have been a genuine accident but he really should have asked and explained before putting his hand in my bra. And not touched his own bits (albeit above trousers) in front of me.
I'm 33 now and with a different practice thankfully and when I needed an intimate examination there the doc asked a HCA to chaperone which i was glad if.

Too right.

The excessive number of 20 year old women dying needlessly of breast cancer since GPs stopped routine examinations is a tragedy. We’ve sacrificed a generation to wokeness.

Oh wait. 🙄

I don't know if it was normal in the UK in 1996, (I have never had a breast exam in the UK) but every time I've been to my gynecologist during pregnancy and for smear tests in Germany, the doctor (female) performs a breast exam. I've been to two different ones and they have both done it. It is a normal part of a gynecological examination here.

For the first one I was also asked whether I breastfed my first child (born in the UK).

Actually, not every pregnancy appointment. Just the early one where it's confirmed.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who picked up on that? What on earth has your skin tone got to do with either finding a lump or being able to breastfeed properly?

I'm sorry @Buxton87 but I don't think that was a normal thing to do but I don't know what, if anything, could be done now depending on how long ago it actually happened. I'm very sorry to anyone on this thread that has been violated by doctors or anyone (I read the optometrist post so it's not just one field of specialists here) that has been assaulted, violated or worse. We should feel safe on this planet and we really don't, but we can when we speak as one, en masse and get situations changed.

I agree, some of these stories are horrific, I have one of my own which I will not add,because as you point out, they are not related to the ops incidence.

Where many doctors performed this check in the 90s. It was very common, and as multiple posters said, it was to check for potential later issues in breast feeding or other breast tissue issues.

the op is still angry about it 30 years later, so understanding that is key, why is she still angry, did the doctor behave in a sexualised manner for example?

It was very standard. The article @CurlsnSunshinetime4tea explains it.

I had a breast exam at 17 when I asked to go on the pill. I felt very uncomfortable. But it was quite normal.

Breast cancer was more of a killer than it is now.

1996, I was 14 and I had had an injury to my wrist that 6 months later was still causing pain and swelling every so often (it had been broken, mum refused to take me to A+E saying it was only sprained, eventually had to have it re broken and set).

Was taken to the GP by my mum, who was to put it bluntly, thick. GP was an old guy, fat, he smelled appalling and I hated seeing him.
He asked my mum to wait in the waiting room so off she went, didn't even question why.

He then says, "right I need to check you over for any other unresolved injuries. Come and lay on the bed here".

He then unbuttoned my school shirt, and chuckled about my having no need of a bra as I had "bloomed" yet. Didn't stop him sticking his dirty great hand under my crop top and having a good feel.

Just as he was about to do the same in the waistband of my skirt, a nurse came in to ask him to sign some prescriptions. He jumped and sat at his desk. She came over and told me to button my shirt and he would send a referral to the hospital shortly. She then pushed me out the door.

I told my mum. She called me a liar. Said the GP was a lovely man and I could get him in trouble. And if he was examining me it was because of a concern. I asked how when it was my wrist, not my boobs. She literally slapped me.

About 4 years later, he was arrested for sexual assault. Multiple women came forward and a few young men as well. It was a huge scandal. I wasn't living at home by that point but actually rang my mum and asked for an apology. She said I had never told her and she couldn't even remember my needing to see him about any wrist injury. She knew but then she would never admit it

He killed himself in jail. I never bothered going to the police because as she said, she couldn't recall and I'd have looked a liar.

That’s awful I’m so sorry

I remember a case up here in Scotland where a physio had been telling women to take off their bras, there was no clinical reason other than to get off on seeing their breasts bouncing. He was prosecuted and struck off. People trust health care professionals and do what they ask. To betray that trust is awful. I had my babies 17 and 15 years ago and no one came near my boobs.

God I'm confused. 🤔What has wokeness got to do with doctors and breast exams - is there a new definition of wokeness I should be aware of or are you just using wokeness as a catch all for things you don't agree with?

This happened to me in 1983, with my first pregnancy. It was explained to me as part of the examination and I had no problem with it then nor do I have now. It was the begining of a big push towards breast cancer awareness (campaigns on TV promoting self examination, leaflets all over the place in libraries and supermarkets etc). I wasn't surprised, worried or offended because they were trying to normalise such things. We lived in a very rural community and our GP practice was a one man band. By the time of my second pregnancy (1987), very sadly, the doctor was dead from cancer himself, and his son, straight out of med school, had taken on the practice. There was no breast exam that time but I do half remember being asked if I examined myself.

Not normal in my 90s pregnancy experience! I did have my nipples checked by my midwife as I wanted to breastfeed & have inverted nipples, but a doctor has never examined my breasts as part of any gynaecology or obstetrics appointment.

I was 19 when I had my first child, and 24 with my second; a female GP did feel my breasts for a blocked duct & nipple infection after my 2nd, but it was a breast specific examination of course.

Having been SA’d in childhood and as a teen at work, I was probably more hyper vigilant when it came to intimate exams and there was definitely nothing untoward in any ante natal visit; even in the early 90s the male obs/gynae consultants & registrars were chaperoned by a woman at any appointment where they were involved.

Love & unMumsnetty hugs to all that have had experiences where people have used their authority to abuse them. It was rife in the industry I worked in as a naive teen.

I'm a red haired woman and I don't think I have nipples that are more or less sensitive or that I would have any problems breastfeeding because of my colouring.

Please quote the medical study that backs up your posts.

Not read the whole thread but I have read the OP and some others.
When I was about 29 or 30 in the early 2000s I was examined by a very well respected consultant at a teaching hospital for a repeated urinary tract infection.

I admit the symptoms on paper warranted an internal examination (or at least I assume so - not a medic but I guess I can see why you might argue that might need to be eliminated).

The internal examination I experienced (just me and the consultant - no other professional present) went way way beyond what must have been necessary. Having a trusting personality and easily intimidated in certain situations and being desperate to be cured means, looking back on it, there is no doubt in my mind I was sexually assaulted.

I have never bothered to report it tho. Although on paper procedures are much better now-a-days so at least people know to question these things if they are about to happen,in many ways the world (and the NHS) is far worse and I am sure any complaint I made would fail/get lost in the ether. When I say "worse" I mean far far more overburdened overworked, poorly managed and under resourced and facing multiple times more patients on a daily basis for many different reasons. Its like you go to the NHS/a GP if you think you might be at risk of death but for no other reason in 2023.

I honestly think back in those days (1990s) people were put in "categories" from the off and treated accordingly. And the NHS heirarchy was far more rigid (eg if it is a consultant no one questioned anything and people would bow to them in the corridor).
I recall a woman who I think probably had a mild to moderate experience of post natal depression on the birth of her first baby being signed into a psychiatric ward by her family on the advice of a consultant who had literally just met her (many people asked if she had shown suicidal tendancies or risk to the baby etc and multiple people said "no"). This would have been about 1990.

Breast exams were part of gyne exams, both female and male drs performed them

I had a breast exam in the mid 80s for a works medical. Yes, to get the job you had to have a medical examination. The doctor called in one of the nurses before he asked me to remove my top and performed the exam. Although I was very young and embarrassed, it was very brief and didn't feel inappropriate.

I don’t understand the comment either, the check was not done to simply check for breast cancer, although that was part of it, and it wasn’t done exclusively on 20 year olds, it was simply pregnant women but was primarily aimed at identifying potential issues with breast feeding ie inverted nipples and common for first time mothers.

people need to remember this was 30 years ago, it didn’t matter if you were 20 or 40. It was simply checks done at that time.

I went to the local village surgery when I was 26 and pregnant for the first time in 2000.
Almost retired GP said he wanted to examine my bump (I was about 12 weeks) and told me to remove my knickers (which started below the bump) and I said no, that's not necessary. But I felt guilty saying no to a doctor.