To think it’s crazy you can parent whatever way you want?!

[ItsGivingJudgey]

This OP will sound judgey has hell hence my username. I’ve NC but long time user.

I know it’s a free country (in the UK at least). I also really support human rights, however I still find it mad that you can have a child and raise them whatever way you want no matter how batshit so long as it doesn’t meet the very high legal requirements for removal.

Examples:

ONE:

My SIL does F all with her child and he’s now 2.5 years old. He literally does not leave the house other than for absolute essentials such as medical appointments. He doesn’t go to nursery despite it being free (she doesn’t work). He’s never been swimming, to feed the ducks, to the beach or the local park. He’s never met other children outside of his cousins. He’s only ever been to soft play twice when I have physically picked them up to take them with me and my dc.
He only ever leaves the house when my in-laws take him food shopping with them just to get him out. He can literally go 1-2 weeks without being outside his front door.
SIL on the other hand goes on holidays, days out with her boyfriend, cocktails with friends etc. She just has the in-laws babysit when she does. Her reasoning? ‘It’s a faff’ ‘the weather is bad’ or she ‘can’t be arsed today’. She was very lazy before becoming a parent but her laziness now has extended to her child who literally lives his entire life within the confines of the house. It’s nothing to do with mental health on her part, it’s pure laziness. She’ll only take him out if a member of the family with a car physically goes and picks them up and drops them back off home. The nursery is less than a 5 minute walk from her house. She was badgered by the health visitor to enroll him so she did it, took him for a week and then never bothered again as it was ‘too much faffing about for just a few hours’.

He lives off microwave meals and tinned food. Wakes up and spends the entire day in front of the tv or with his tablet. When my in-laws went away last year he didn’t leave the house for 3 weeks!!

It doesn’t meet the legal requirements or thresholds for social services. He is fed and clothed and has lots of toys. But it’s crazy that he is able to spend his entire life within the confines of a house and that’s that.

TWO:

My cousin. Very well educated, affluent and has always been a bit eccentric as is her DH. However over the years they have joined a kind of weird religion/cult like group and are massive conspiracy theorists. They homeschool their kids (fine), but have indoctrinated them with mad beliefs. The kids including the baby are vegan. Their unvaccinated. They can only bath in this specially filtered water. The kids are feral and not allowed to watch tv, listen to any type of mainstream music only this specifically selected whale like music. They avoid any type of radiation and limit sources of power so in the evenings the house is lit by candlelight and an open fire. The kids wear this robe like clothing that seems impractical. The kids no nothing outside of their parents beliefs. They have no awareness of the outside world. They only socialise with the other people in this conspiracy group that also homeschool.

My cousin and her husband are well meaning and obviously it’s their right to believe what they wish. But their kids won’t know how to use the internet, any real world references, learn about other religions or cultures. Surely this will do long term harm in some way?

The children couldn’t tell you what spaghetti bolognaise is or what a smartphone/tablet is or that there was ever a world war or even how what a kettle
is for. But they can tell you about crystal healing powers. What if when they get to 18 they want to live a ‘mainstream’ life and join society? How will they manage? Get a job? Make friends with peers?

It’s not that I believe there’s only one right way to parent or anything because I don’t. However I find it mad that you can have a baby and so long as you meet very basic standards, you can literally do as you want with actual human beings.

Please tell me if I’m being unreasonable to think it’s not right and if I am being unreasonable why so? I feel so sorry for these children.

Yes exactly.

Imagine the number of legal cases - was the screen time for Tommy aged 6 'reasonable' or 'excessive'. And what punishment - take the child away? Fine the parents?

It's so sad particularly the 1st situation the kid is ignored. But what's the alternative? Social services struggle as it is. It's not like they have time to challenge such practices.

I think it's on society really, our so called norms. If you cosleep or your kid is loud, house untidy or kid is 'naughty' bad mum. If you say they don't eat much sugar = judgey b**, you have no TV? Weirdo.

If your kid is unseen quietly staring at TV, eating microwave food no one questions it. Well they will at school age when the poor kid can hardly talk but I'm glad education is compulsory.

If we are making preschool/nursery attendance compulsory then wouldn't the legal school age also need to be lowered? Otherwise it would be challenged that if the legal age for education is 5, how are we forcing people to send their 2 year olds to preschool/nursery?

Or would you just make it compulsory for children where red flags are raised such as reports from family members like OP followed by something like a home visit?

The other thing to consider is looked after children and care leavers statistically also have poor outcomes. Is it truly better to lower what would 'qualify' for a child to be taken into care or should it be left for extreme cases for good reason?

I see a big guide book coming on. Years of debate 🤣

By the sound of things, a third of the country would have to be sniffing round people's wifi records, a third would be emergency foster parents and the other third working in care law and the family courts!

Yes, agree. It's concerning how many children "disappear" every year - i heard an item on the radio a year or so ago about the number that had, during/after the covid lockdowns, seemingly vanished off the face of the earth - left school when the schools shut and never reappeared. And some children are simply never registered and have no doctor, no dentist, no health visitor, no one who might pick up on a problem.

I know several children who are homeschooled, and they're thriving in balanced, caring, quite 'normal' families. And while i think parental choice is important - it takes all sorts to make a world - a child's wellbeing is too and it shouldn't be possible to simply 'disappear' your child because you prefer, for whatever reason, to not engage with the outside world.

You’re using extreme (and most likely false) examples to put forward totalitarian ideas (and getting the support of people like you on this thread). This thread is bullshit.

There's things like breastfeeding too. We all know what the research says so does this mean that the state forces women to breastfeed? What happens if they refuse? Is one feed good enough or will it be for the recommended 2 years?

No thanks, I don't want to live in a world like that at all.

This is fucking batshit 😂

This is hugely important. Foster care is dreadful for children. Home has to be very bad for it to be better to be taken away.

The idea watching TV with your mum is somehow worse for a child than being sent to live with a stranger is absolutely dystopian.

It is fascist to think the state owns a child and can move it like a package.

@SouthLondonMum22 yes I would make the legal age for education 1, but it just wouldn’t be full time. The vast majority of children are in some form of setting by 1 anyway. The sad truth is that for many children by the time they start reception their educational chances are over as they’re years behind the children with good parents. 15 -20 hours a week from 1 would go some way to help.

My friend i mentioned had yearly home visits and 6 monthly reviews . She submits a report for each child and samples of work and what plans for education she has going forward she also has to explain what social opportunities the dc are given (although they are all autistic so it’s accepted socialising is difficult for them )

Isn't it just.

I think YABU because actual child abuse is happening and it's much worse than either of these scenarios. The first one also, would the child really be better off/happier in foster care or adopted? That separation in itself causes trauma so should be avoided unless the benefits outweigh the costs.

We should have freedom to parent as we wish, with a bar drawn for abuse or neglect. There is loads of accessible info these days on good parenting.

The conspiracy stuff IMO should be treated as a totally separate issue. It sounds like those parents are taking measures they believe are necessary to keep their children safe, and the only reason it comes across as wrong is because the majority of people are looking to different sources of information. If they were looking to a more trustworthy source of information, then they'd probably be considered extremely conscientious parents.

I believe this (falling into conspiracy thinking) happens when people have lost trust in the systems that are supposed to be there to benefit us - the government, medical system, educational system etc. When they have lost trust then the vultures come down picking victims to draw into their conspiracy, sell them products, expensive memberships, even just ideas. It's very lucrative and the market wouldn't be nearly as big if there wasn't the lack of trust in the first place. It's not helpful to just roll your eyes and say they are idiots or evil or wrong. They lost trust for a reason. Find out as many of those reasons and fix the problem and you won't have as many people looking for alternative answers.

I know that one of the reasons for lack of trust is that the groups/people hoping to recruit into their way of thinking are there spreading misinformation, but I also think misinformation only takes hold when it can root into a real experience someone has had. Take those experiences seriously and you'll make change.

It is a tiny number not registered, this is scaremongering. When births are registered health visitors are informed.

If a child was in school the council is informed when they deregister.

The fact there are insufficient council resources to check is a political choice.

I don’t think I’m a fascist, at least I really hope not.

I don’t think all kids should be parented one way and I believe in freedom to practice your religion of choice etc.

But when you inflict any type of extreme lifestyle on a child then I guess I do struggle.

My cousin for example and her husband won’t teach their kids the sciences because it conflicts with their beliefs. Actual proven facts conflicts with their beliefs.
They also won’t walk under street lights/antennas etc for fear of ‘waves’ they give off.
So in turn their kids are petrified of walking through cities and urban areas. They try and remain as ‘off grid’ as possible.

I think it’s perfectly fine for my cousin and her DH to believe this. They know what scientists and the ‘mainstream’ people believe and choose to believe otherwise. Fine. However their kids have no idea what others believe or what scientists think. Just this one way of thinking.

Most kids who are part of a religion of belief system such as Christian’s, Jews,
muslims etc are raised in their belief system but are also aware that there are other religions and belief systems too. So at some point they are able to make their own choices to continue with their familiar faith or look into the alternatives.

My cousins kids aren’t a part of wider society to have this awareness. They can raised to believe literally whatever my cousin wants. That is my cousins right. I guess I do struggle with it.

This is hugely important. Foster care is dreadful for children. Home has to be very bad for it to be better to be taken away.

Yep! Some of the posts on here are almost charmingly naive about the realities of foster care.

Thank you for saying this.

Some on here would suggest that even part time, nursery isn't ideal for a 1 year old. There was a thread recently where some people said that nursery shouldn't even be available for babies and children should be at home with mum until 3.

Who is right? Who would get to decide?

For so many reasons, many already posted, Children’s Services thresholds can't be lowered. They're set to balance the significant harm of not intervening with the significant harm of intervening (particularly with removal of children which causes so much damage).

In these cases, I'm not even sure the thresholds would need to be lowered?

I know Child In Need is voluntary process but if parents don't engage it can be stepped up to Child Protection:
Under Section 17 Children Act 1989, a child will be considered in need if:

• they are unlikely to achieve or maintain or to have the opportunity to achieve or maintain a reasonable standard of health or development without provision of services from the Local Authority;
• their health or development is likely to be significantly impaired, or further impaired, without the provision of services from the Local Authority;

Both scenarios the children are being neglected. In the second scenario they are also Children Missing Education (CME) because that is not a suitable education. Arguably some of their human rights are being contravened too...

Whichever government was in charge, I suppose. Boris Johnson's ideas on parenting, anyone?!

I don't know about the kids in the near cult, but I'd plan treats and trips out to see the ducks and play in the park with your little nephew. Give him your time and show him some love and fresh food. It wouldn't take much to help him along in his development.

I dont know the answer to this but so much of the thread seems to be about the rights of the adults - what about the child's right to a decent life?

I know what's 'decent' is subjective but it's so sad when kids lose out because the adults in their lives can't or won't do more than the bare minimum and quite often the result is a cycle where each generation just repeats the pattern of the previous one.

Then report them.

Stop pretending that child abuse is allowed. It is isn't.

If you have concerns, do your duty and report.

The laws are there. We don't need fascist oversight of families - as you've proven, because you know what is happening.

It's your failure to do anything you should be reflecting on.

I'm pleased you're getting some sensible replies. In the first scenario (if this thread is true) the situation obviously isn't ideal but what would the alternative be, remove the child? He at least has a caring wider family, who can take him out, and will soon be in school or nursery where he will be able to socialise all day. The mum might be depressed but she has his whole childhood to turn things around.