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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Self centered daughter

155 replies

Mandy63 · 20/11/2023 21:35

My daughter is 34 years old and transgender ( born male) the reason I mention this is I'm not sure if it has anything to do with her attitude.
I'm also not sure if she is on the autism spectrum or if I'm just looking for something to prove she's not just self absorbed
2 years ago she moved in with her new partner and everything seemed fine.
About a month ago her partner came to me and said that my daughter was driving her mad. Not helping around the house, leaving cups and plates in the bedroom and even leaving her partner to look after my granddaughter when she went to stay.
They have since split and her partner has moved out. My daughter cannot afford the rent on her own and has an eviction notice. I found out today that the rent is due again in 2 days and she doesn't have it.
She has known for a few weeks that she needs to look for somewhere to live, go to the council, start packing etc. None of which she has done. Finally today she went to the council but has to wait for an appointment
Knowing how urgent things are and obviously being worried about her I took the afternoon off work and asked her to come round. Oh no she couldn't do that as she couldn't face doing anything else today and had plans with a friend.
I was so angry with her I'm afraid she received a very curt txt and also one from her older brother who saw how upset it made me.
At the moment I'm leaving her to it, she's 34 with a 10 yr old daughter and needs to start to grow up
Should I stay out of it and let her either sink or swim?

OP posts:
VoiceOfCommonSense · 21/11/2023 13:25

Wellhellooooodear · 21/11/2023 11:43

Are you aware that biological males cannot give birth?

Admins obviously agree with all this nonsense. I said the same thing and my reply got deleted (not before I got a ton of thanks from people on it which shows these mental people are in the minority)

CeeChynaa · 21/11/2023 14:04

This reply has been deleted

We decided to take this down as it is not in the spirit of the site.

MrBojnokopffsPurpleHat · 21/11/2023 14:57

Could it be that all life's dissatisfaction's and stresses have not been solved by transitioning and your child is still sorting out their life in their place in world post transition. If they have always been self absorbed, and bumbling along without much thought to the day-to-day realities of adult life, then this is who they are, and you can choose to bail them out financially if asked, or just provide emotional support. You haven't as yet been asked to contribute either.

Helleofabore · 21/11/2023 15:10

OP. Sadly, I would assume that there is plenty going on with your child that requires diagnosis. Be it depression, or quite a list of things that usually exist as a comorbid condition with people with trans identities. They are at the age though where I am not sure there is much that you can do.

I do echo those posts that have recommended that you be very active in supporting your grand daughter and her mother (not the male calling themselves 'mother') as well as your child. It is highly likely that your grand daughter and her mother may need extra support considering that your daughter in law (or ex- DIL) may also be suffering from gaslighting and abuse from your adult child.

Emotionalsupportviper · 21/11/2023 17:20

AInightingale · 21/11/2023 09:23

Did he transition after his wife gave birth? I'm afraid this is all sounding rather textbook AGP disorder. Your former daughter in law refused to be reincarnated as a 'lesbian' and is now married to a man. I really think you should speak to her and ask her what kind of relationship she wants your son to have with their daughter.

I just refuse to play the game with sexed nouns and pronouns, I'm sorry.

Well. said

Cailin66 · 21/11/2023 22:43

Emotionalsupportviper · 21/11/2023 08:02

What does that make the female parent, then?

What a weird question. The OP said her son is a woman, so he’s clearly female. A female parent. She never mentioned another parent. It might be a man. So he’d be a male parent.

Helleofabore · 21/11/2023 22:50

Cailin66 · 21/11/2023 22:43

What a weird question. The OP said her son is a woman, so he’s clearly female. A female parent. She never mentioned another parent. It might be a man. So he’d be a male parent.

OP was clear that their child was male. Not female. And people cannot change sex, so no male in the history of humans has changed sex to be female. Humans are not clownfish or any other species that might change sex.

OP also stated that their child was the father of a child. OP’s grandchild has a mother who gave birth to that child before OP’s child declared a trans identity. Please stop trying to tell readers that OP’s child is female. That is false.

Cailin66 · 21/11/2023 22:58

Helleofabore · 21/11/2023 22:50

OP was clear that their child was male. Not female. And people cannot change sex, so no male in the history of humans has changed sex to be female. Humans are not clownfish or any other species that might change sex.

OP also stated that their child was the father of a child. OP’s grandchild has a mother who gave birth to that child before OP’s child declared a trans identity. Please stop trying to tell readers that OP’s child is female. That is false.

OP is the one said her son is her daughter. And that he, as a woman, was in a relationship with a woman, who might have been a man, which was never clarified, but she, this woman partner, was complaining to the OP, that the OP’s son, who is now her daughter, is leaving cups around the place.

The OP’s son can’t be the father can he. Since he’s now a woman. So he’s the grandchild’s mother.

You are the one confusing things. The OP knows her son is female.

Helleofabore · 21/11/2023 23:26

Cailin66 · 21/11/2023 22:58

OP is the one said her son is her daughter. And that he, as a woman, was in a relationship with a woman, who might have been a man, which was never clarified, but she, this woman partner, was complaining to the OP, that the OP’s son, who is now her daughter, is leaving cups around the place.

The OP’s son can’t be the father can he. Since he’s now a woman. So he’s the grandchild’s mother.

You are the one confusing things. The OP knows her son is female.

You seem very confused.

My daughter is the father, married and had child before transitioning to female. Apologies for confusion

This was posted by OP. In fact in the opening post the OP states clearly their child was ‘born male’.

As was this posted by OP:

Grandaughter lives with her Mum and visits daughter twice a week.”

and this:

Grandaughter is safe and lives with her Mum and new husband. Only visits daughter twice a week

ie. The child was born in a previous relationship of the OP’s child and that woman who gave birth to the grandchild lives with the child and has a new husband. The child (OP’s grandchild) visits their father (the OP’s child) two times a week.

OP knows very well that their child is male and has always been male. What part of the OP’s posts are you not reading or comprehending?

And besides which, your own posts are completely lacking in logic and coherence. If the OP’s child is trans and as you now say “Since he’s now a woman.” Maybe you don’t understand the language of trans people and their identities or you are fully aware that OP’s child is male but you applying magical thinking.

If this adult child has transitioned and is “now a woman”, what did they ‘transition’ from?

Or are you simply repeating pseudoscience that a person with a trans identity ‘was always the sex they transitioned to’, in which case again I ask you to stop spreading falsity and now misinformation. Humans cannot change sex.

Helleofabore · 21/11/2023 23:31

I had to edit that as I changed direction half way through a sentence and my own coherence got lost.

GrandpaFlumpAndHisFlumpetIsBackAgain · 21/11/2023 23:35

I find pronouns confusing so I don't bother with them.

Helleofabore · 21/11/2023 23:45

GrandpaFlumpAndHisFlumpetIsBackAgain · 21/11/2023 23:35

I find pronouns confusing so I don't bother with them.

I find it far better to not use pronouns but where possible to state the sex of a person and keep repeating that if needed. It cuts through the ambiguity and shines a beacon on the topic. It is particularly important for safeguarding issues or for sports or any other issue that has resulted in the harm of women and girls.

Repeating preferred pronouns has now given life to phrases like ‘used her penis to rape’ which is so wrong on many levels.

CeeChynaa · 22/11/2023 00:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Emotionalsupportviper · 22/11/2023 05:40

Cailin66 · 21/11/2023 22:58

OP is the one said her son is her daughter. And that he, as a woman, was in a relationship with a woman, who might have been a man, which was never clarified, but she, this woman partner, was complaining to the OP, that the OP’s son, who is now her daughter, is leaving cups around the place.

The OP’s son can’t be the father can he. Since he’s now a woman. So he’s the grandchild’s mother.

You are the one confusing things. The OP knows her son is female.

The OP’s son can’t be the father can he. Since he’s now a woman. So he’s the grandchild’s mother.

Transwomen claim to be women (they aren't). He may dress as a woman, give himself a woman's name, "live as a woman" (whatever that may mean - using women's facilities and demanding female pronouns as far as I can see), but he is not female and never will be.

A woman is an adult human female. That is the definition of a woman. It has nothing to do with "feelings","gendered souls" or what have you - and even if there is such a thing as a "gendered soul", it has nothing to do with the physical reality of the body. We live in a physical world, and biology matters.

OP's "DD" is male-bodied. A man. OP may choose to pander to his demands by calling him her daughter, but he has fathered a child, and is not, and never will be, the child's mother. The woman who gave birth to the child is her mother.

It is people like yourself, who insist on ignoring reality who are confusing things. Humankind has known for many 000's of years what male and female are (as does the rest of the mammalian animal kingdom), and which of them gestates and gives birth.

Wearing a dress and lipstick and calling oneself "she" does not make someone a woman. After all, in a lot of cultures men wear the long flowing robes, and women the protection of trouser-like pants. In some cultures (eg some indigenous South American peoples) no-one wears anything except a small loincloth to protect the genitals; in others (eg old Inuit societies) everyone wore very heavy coverings from head to foot to protect against the bitter cold. Wodaabe tribesmen wear "make-up". Clothing, make-up - all of this is culturally dictated, and is variable.

You know what makes a woman? Chromosomes do. In every society in the history of the world it is biology which determines sex. And sex is NOT cultural, or variable. (And sex is NOT "gender")

Emotionalsupportviper · 22/11/2023 05:41

Helleofabore · 21/11/2023 23:31

I had to edit that as I changed direction half way through a sentence and my own coherence got lost.

We've all been there . . . Grin

Helleofabore · 22/11/2023 07:59

If anyone is less than clear why people have mentioned significant mental health comorbidities when it comes to males who demand that they be accepted as being ‘women’, this thread is a great example. Research has shown that most people seeking medicalised transition have significant underlying comorbid issues.

Occasionally this is trauma related. This seems to be very pravalent in female transitioners, particularly those transitioning as teens and that trauma can be sex abuse related, often it is divorce or a parent having chronic illness or dying or a number of these.

Often the issue is autism or ADHD, depression or a personality disorder. The interim Cass report has discussed this, as have studies and papers who have reviewed patient records at gender clinics. I am happy to post these.

Narcissism is obviously one of those. And you can see why when you understand the coercive power wielded by someone who demands people accept the impossible. In the workplace, in the home, in many aspects of that person’s life people who don’t at least give lip service to agreeing a human has changed sex can be punished and victimhood can be claimed.

An example of this is that there is currently a tiktokker who is a male person who goes into a coffee shop or a restaurant and sets up their camera and records wait staff ‘misgendering’ them. And then records that wait staff’s punishment of being lectured by the tiktokker or being reported to the manager. all the while, the tiktokker is making this incident public, viral even. Every few days or so, a new video appears. What motivates a person to do that, I wonder?

Therefore, I have a great deal of sympathy for a parent who knows that if they don’t use preferred pronouns and declare that magic has happened and their son is now their daughter, that the parent will be cut from their child’s life. There is usually some degree of rewriting history too which has significant impact on all the family. It could be revealing a undiscussed or acknowledged truth, or it could be a recreation of someone’s live to fit the desired narrative that person wishes to present to the world. Such as ‘x always was a ‘female person’, they were born in the wrong body. Again, no, this is impossible there are no ‘wrong’ bodies.

It is important to remember though that in male people, they can also be aroused thinking of themselves as female (autogynophilia), particularly if those male people have other paraphilias as well, such as that they find humiliation arousing. Some male people describe this as sissification and become avid watchers of ‘sissy porn’ which some claim hypnotise them (hypno porn). You then have a group called the transmaxxers who then believe that since women wouldn’t sleep with them, they will become the thing they hate and get sex from men instead.

Although autogynophilia has been denied by some experts, it is also clearly stated by some male trans people that this is exactly their motivation. And that anyone using their pronouns and accepting their statements of being women contributes to their arousal.

TLDR? OP’s question about whether mental health might underlie their adult child’s behaviour is certainly not uncommon.

Helleofabore · 22/11/2023 09:06

In regards to pronoun usage and why a growing number of people now refuse to use preferred pronouns or even refer to male people who demand to be called ‘women’ as transwomen, I think Naomi Cunningham has summed it up rather well in this interview.

Naomi Cunningham is a barrister and so has some first hand experience in how the effects of language changes impacts policy and law. In my reading on the topic, I have seen the argument used that ‘people use my pronouns therefore it is cruel / inhumane to deny my demand to be included in female sport / prison / single sex spaces’. I have seen laws and policies changed by that argument from male activists consulting on committees etc. So, to any person reading this who has ever written or thought, where is the harm in just being kind and using pronouns, there is harm. Maybe not that you can trace directly, but the harm is there on numerous fronts.

Chair of Sex Matters, Naomi Cunningham on LBC with Clare Foges

Edited video of Naomi Cunningham's interview with Clare Foges on LBC on Saturday 18th November 2023.Naomi explains why she no longer uses preferred pronouns,...

https://youtu.be/EoF5lzIBpgA?si=lseJzVyFWerl7B2E

Mandy63 · 22/11/2023 17:11

My daughter was born male but now identifies as female. Whilst still fully male and identifying as such they married a woman and fathered a child. A few years later she decided that she wanted to identify as female and the marriage broke down. Although she lives as a female and takes female hormones she is still a Father. (Think Kaitlyn Jenner)!

OP posts:
AInightingale · 22/11/2023 17:24

Unfortunately I am thinking CJ. Caitlyn Jenner is a self-confessed autogynephile who has remained an intact male and has a very young female partner. He also fathered children. His identification started with cross dressing, I believe, using his daughter's clothing. He has said things like he 'wants to f--- himself' when dressed as a woman. I am really sorry for your difficulties at the minute OP, but I can't really see these late-onset heterosexual 'transwomen' as anything other than sexual fetishists and fantasists. As pps have said, your granddaughter is your priority here. The service providers in the UK will bend over backwards to validate your son's claims, but I think a lot of these men have very severe mental health and psychosexual problems.

Helleofabore · 22/11/2023 17:25

Thanks Mandy. But they don't identify as a 'female', surely, but a woman?

I am sure you are very aware that not one human on this earth can change sex and we are assured constantly by trans people that sex and gender are very different.

And seriously, how does your child 'live as a female'. No. Just no. They have a male body so every single one of their decisions that involves their body is about a 'male body' never a female body. Therefore they can never live as a female.

Helleofabore · 22/11/2023 17:32

And adding to that for any one reading along, it is also a complete fallacy that these male people even 'live as a woman'. No. They do not.

These male people live their life as they want to believe a woman lives their life. There is based on only their unique perception of what a woman is. Only ever that. Because even when other's react to them it is as a male person, plus they, as a male person, respond as a male person who believes that is how a 'woman' would respond.

It is a complete falsehood to say any male is 'living as a woman' or a female. It is just another one of the mantra like phrases that society has been taught to say to support this falsehood.

BlueEyedPeanut · 22/11/2023 21:56

I love the irony of someone wanting to identify as a woman yet still being the stereotype of a deadbeat father.

Delphinium20 · 22/11/2023 22:04

Hey OP, I just wanted to say that I can't imagine that what you are dealing with is easy. As a mother, we love our children no matter what. We often go along with our adult children's demands and grudgingly accept their life choices even when we know that our child might be better off following different life paths. We always want to help them, even when we worry if we're enabling them. You will always love your child. This is painful for you, and I'm truly sorry for that. It's shit watching adult kids not living to the potential we dreamed for them. You know, some adults figure it out later, so don't give up hope, but I also advise setting some boundaries for yourself and focus your active help on nurturing your granddaughter. I hope she stays a comfort and a joy to you.

Cailin66 · 23/11/2023 09:37

Helleofabore · 21/11/2023 23:31

I had to edit that as I changed direction half way through a sentence and my own coherence got lost.

I'm not a bit surprised you got confused. The OP has clearly stated the son has transitioned into being a woman, and you don't seem to understand that process. But the OP knows that he's her daughter now. And therefore he's the mother of the her grandchild as well.

Helleofabore · 23/11/2023 09:53

Cailin66 · 23/11/2023 09:37

I'm not a bit surprised you got confused. The OP has clearly stated the son has transitioned into being a woman, and you don't seem to understand that process. But the OP knows that he's her daughter now. And therefore he's the mother of the her grandchild as well.

Excellent. Your posts really are now showing clearly how deep your belief is, it is obviously now ideological in your case.

I am fully aware of the ‘process’ you talk about. Would you like to support your posts now with some peer reviewed evidence that a male human can do the impossible and become a female human? I look forward to that.

Otherwise, what you are doing is posting how you wish to use language in a way that was not the original intention of that word to convey meanings for clear communication. Great! Go for it! Do stop telling other posters that they are wrong for not using your personally chosen meanings though.

If you choose to live in a world supported only by pseudoscience and philosophical theory that doesn’t reflect material reality, fill your boots. You are doing a great job on this thread helping many readers to see a live demonstration of the gaping holes of logic and material reality in your own points that you are posting.