AIBU to take my son into the female changing room?

[JustKeepSwimmingAlong]

I’ve taken my kids swimming tonight, both have separate swimming lessons and I swam with one while the other had theirs. Eldest is male, 9 and has multiple additional needs including ADHD, ASD and some physical disabilities which means he struggles to change himself. Youngest is in nursery so can dress herself but does need supervision. We got out the pool and realised all the changing rooms were full. There were 8 classes on over multiple pools, as well as general swim on at the same time. There’s only two family/accessible changing rooms and the others are all individual. There were literal queues for the large changing rooms.
I then noticed people going out of the group change. I’ve not used it before, but there was a male and a female changing room, so we went in the females. There was no one in it so started laying out the kids clothes and getting them to shower. Got them out the showers and started to get them dressed and people started coming in. There were a couple of mums with young girls and boys, and then a teenager looking girl came in by herself. She immediately came over to tell me that we were in the female room. I explained my son needed help getting changed and the changing rooms were full, but this room had been empty so we’d used it rather than standing wet and cold waiting for a changing room.
We were nearly Finished and my son was fully dressed when she arrived. He sat next to me, facing the wall and we left within a few minutes. During this time, she did get changed, so we didn’t delay her. Now I’m wondering if I was unreasonable?
I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, but I really don’t know what else I could have done in the situation? There’s too many classes and too few changing rooms, and we need a larger/accessible one, but they’re the only ones with baby change so they’re really
Popular. The lessons are every week so now I’m wondering what I can do next week? Would I be unreasonable to keep using the group change if there are no other options available?

Fair enough, you're one of the few making it about that. Apologies.

I'm not 'entrenched' in anything though, my answer is based on a male child being given priority in a female only space.

It would be a different debate if this male identified as a female, of course, but that's not the concern here.

Hahaha 🤣 you're projecting so hard. Did you even read my other comment.
This is getting really childish now I was asking why posters are using the same arguments used against adult transgenders to a nine year old boy.

Don't even try and deny it isn't the same arguments anyone who's spent a minute on a Mumsnet transgender thread knows it is

The sight of certain posters, coming onto a thread (about whether a 9 year old boy should be in the female changing rooms) to accuse people of transphobia, then tell those that point out that no-one but themselves brought trans into it, that they are obsessed with being ‘terfy’, is quite something.

Every time women stand up for their hard earned rights there’s this catch all accusation to try to shut us down and discredit us.

We see you.

What am I meant to be projecting exactly? I find it EXTREMELY tiresome that any discussion about women's spaces has to end up in transgender territory, I haven't posted on any 'trans threads' here so I don't even know what you're actually referring to. Trans stuff is not relevant here, OP has not said anyone is trans, it's dreadful that a teenage girl being uncomfortable can't be discussed without trans stuff being brought into it IMO.

Of course it’s the same line. How else do you say that female spaces are for women only?

The question you’re poking at is what do you define as a woman, which is the remit of all the trans threads but is a moot point here. This is about biological male children, who identify as biological males, and whether or not they should be entitled to access female spaces with their mum. There is no debate about whether or not this boy is a “woman” and should therefore have access to female spaces.

He is male, which a male body and identify. He is above the age of “little child”. He does not belong, at all, in a female space.

It's not gaslighting to clarify that something someone is imaging/assuming to be true about another person/people actually isn't true. She's telling us why we've formed certain opinions, based on what she thinks and not what she knows as fact.

The only gaslighting going on here is a couple of people saying this is about trans issues when the only people banging on about that are themselves. Absolutely deranged behaviour

Well said.

@Leah5678

This is about an older boy changing in a female changing room. How else do you say “female spaces are not for boys” without saying, “female spaces are not for boys”?

then a teenager looking girl came in by herself. She immediately came over to tell me that we were in the female room. I explained my son needed help getting changed and the changing rooms were full, but this room had been empty so we’d used it rather than standing wet and cold waiting for a changing room.

I feel so bloody sorry for this teenager. I’d have made a complaint to the centre and an even bigger song and dance about a 9 year old being in a female only changing area. It’s shocking behaviour from the OP to disregard a female reminding her the changing room was female only because she wouldn’t wait on a suitable changing area. This is wrong on so many levels, your 9 year old son shouldn’t have been in a female changing area disabled or not.

@Thedm
I'm a woman whose opinion is as valid as any other
Who are you to tell me otherwise?
I am a mum of girls and a boy
I have always and will always do what I think is best, whether that's keep my son with me or be fine with a boy in a changing room behaving appropriately and being supervised

And if that's against the rules of the place you're in then you'll be kicked out. Being a Mum of a boy does not mean the rules don't apply to you

You are accusing people based on your agenda, then telling them not to dare disagree, and then agreeing with comments calling out other people for apparent gaslighting? You don't see the irony?

You realise your actions impact others, yes? You don’t get to take away the rights of women to a female only space just because you have a son and have decided that he should be allowed in.

He has his own space. He also has access to family changing rooms. Why does he also need access to a female only space? Seriously, why? There are plenty spaces for him, and he wouldn’t be alone. You can go with him into family changing.

It's the same argument because it doesn't bloody matter what the reason is, male people - other than young children - should not be in women's single sex changing areas.

I don't care if they are a nine year old boy but have a disability or are young for their age.

I don't care if they are a nine year old boy who feels unsafe alone in the men's but their dad can't take them swimming.

I don't care if they are a nine year old boy who identifies as a nine year old girl.

I don't care if they are a 29 year old man who identifies as a 29 year old woman.

Some of these reasons for not wanting or feeling able to use the men's changing rooms are more understandable than others, but none of them are valid reasons for male people to be in women's spaces.

If their reason for not wanting or feeling able to use the men's changing rooms is a legitimate one, it is the responsibility of the people who own or manage the space to find a solution which does not involve either women or disabled people being required to share their own spaces.

@CremeEggSupremacy I would cross that bridge if I came to it.In real life I've around people really don't care if there's a child about. Being 'kicked out' is a very dramatic way of saying 'being politely spoken to' lol

Where have i suggested that?

How has this ended up being about trans people when that literally has nothing to do with the thread, or the discussion at all until one poster decided to start trying to read meaning into posts that wasn’t there!

defending women’s spaces for women isn’t part of any bigger agenda than ensuring women have safe spaces. It really shouldn’t be complicated

How old is the child? Most people wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a 4 year old, but a 9 year old is a completely different situation.

This line of argument is just kind of a way of saying "I don't care if anyone disagrees with me I am right and that's it" though isn't it.

I could start up a thread about how no bananas should be sold in supermarkets because of x reason.

And then when people say, but that's really silly I don't agree with x reason, I can't just say "but YOU don't speak for all women and you don't get to make that decision on behalf of all women".

Well no, but it's a 2 way street and it takes a collective of people to decide what communities and societies deem appropriate.

Sirzy
For whatever reason some posters weren't happy with an interesting and robust discussion where women with a range of views discussed privacy and dignity of children having access to single sex spaces, the importance of boundaries for our male and female children, the need to better provision for family and accessible changing, and the responsibility of parents to choose venues that have appropriate changing facilities if they require mixed sex changing arrangements.

The problem with that is that women have never, ever been asked whether we consent to our single sex spaces being made mixed sex.

@SnowflakeSparkles

But that’s exactly what already happened. A very large collective decided that women deserved protection under the equality act, and that women deserve sex segregated spaces which are protected by law. It’s not just me disagreeing with you and telling you that my opinion is right and yours is wrong. The law disagrees with you. The collective group of women disagree with you. Society has already decided what is acceptable, and your son in a female space has been deemed unacceptable. Female spaces are for females, not your son. This has been litigated. You have lost. Your son has to use his own space or a mixed family space. He has no place in a female only space.

You are the one here who is disregarding and disrespecting what society and the law have decided. You are the one stamping and saying that you have a son so you will do as you please. I’m not the problem here.

I can respect this explanation

I can't respect other users who try to deny their argument has anything to do with transgenders despite using the exact terminology seen on trans threads and then gaslight anyone who points it out

Yes it absolutely should take a collective of people to decide what is generally appropriate but when it comes to deciding who is permitted to see other women's naked bodies no. You don't get to consent for other women. The teenage girl speaking up did not want a boy seeing her changing and you thinking she should tolerate it does not provide consent on her behalf, so frankly it doesn't matter at all what you think (just as actually it doesn't matter that I don't think she should have to change around a 9 year old if it turned out she didn't mind after all, but she did)