AIBU to take my son into the female changing room?

[JustKeepSwimmingAlong]

I’ve taken my kids swimming tonight, both have separate swimming lessons and I swam with one while the other had theirs. Eldest is male, 9 and has multiple additional needs including ADHD, ASD and some physical disabilities which means he struggles to change himself. Youngest is in nursery so can dress herself but does need supervision. We got out the pool and realised all the changing rooms were full. There were 8 classes on over multiple pools, as well as general swim on at the same time. There’s only two family/accessible changing rooms and the others are all individual. There were literal queues for the large changing rooms.
I then noticed people going out of the group change. I’ve not used it before, but there was a male and a female changing room, so we went in the females. There was no one in it so started laying out the kids clothes and getting them to shower. Got them out the showers and started to get them dressed and people started coming in. There were a couple of mums with young girls and boys, and then a teenager looking girl came in by herself. She immediately came over to tell me that we were in the female room. I explained my son needed help getting changed and the changing rooms were full, but this room had been empty so we’d used it rather than standing wet and cold waiting for a changing room.
We were nearly Finished and my son was fully dressed when she arrived. He sat next to me, facing the wall and we left within a few minutes. During this time, she did get changed, so we didn’t delay her. Now I’m wondering if I was unreasonable?
I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, but I really don’t know what else I could have done in the situation? There’s too many classes and too few changing rooms, and we need a larger/accessible one, but they’re the only ones with baby change so they’re really
Popular. The lessons are every week so now I’m wondering what I can do next week? Would I be unreasonable to keep using the group change if there are no other options available?

@PosterBoy

It wouldn’t be ok for an adult female carer and her disabled son to change in the men’s changing room because they would be at risk from unknown adult males - who are the main perpetrators of sexual violence against women and children.

It would be ok for an adult female and her male disabled child to be in the female changing space - where no other option for disabled/family is available - because the female and the child are a risk to no one.

The scenarios are entirely different.

A 9yo disabled boy under supervision by his mother is not going to run about sexually assaulting women. The grown adult male; totally plausible he could.

If waiting isn’t an option because of disability it is not the responsibility of women to give up rights and spaces to accommodate everyone else all the time. It has to stop. Of course women’s rights are for all women - not boys, not even disabled ones

As a disabled woman, I felt a lot safer when the women’s changing room was for women only. Now I’m supposed to move aside for disabled males as well?
Not happening.

@Sirzy

For your son and the adult man, they are both sexually active to some extent. And they are both used to having to ensure accommodations are made in advance of going to a particular place.

For the OP her son is not sexually active in any respect. And they are just at the point where they are transitioning from it being ok for him to accompany Mum in female spaces and it not being ok. Therefore she is going to have to start ringing in advance to check re. suitable facilities for the first time.

9 vs 14 are two different scenarios in terms of threat and needs.

Considering his needs, Mum thought she would get support. But clearly, from the responses on this thread, women do not want to support disabled children and see a 9yo boy as a threat 🤷‍♀️.

Personally I would have drawn the line at 10. But my DC is behind for his age and will probably be more like 7 by 10, so maybe that is influencing my perception.

I'm afraid your father taking an 11 year old girl into the men's changing room was certainly not considering your safety. You may have been fine with it, but I'm pretty sure you would be an outlier. Most 11 year old girls would be incredibly uncomfortable. And frankly, not safe.

100% this.

@Robinni not allowing males access to female only spaces does not mean we don't want to support and include disabled people - it simply means we are not willing to do it at the expense of female only spaces.

There are two individual toilets one for men and one for women, one is being used and an elderly person of the wrong sex for the empty toilet arrives. They are going to soil themselves. Should they wait or use the empty facility?

I’m very pro single sex spaces. They are extremely important for a multitude of reasons. I’m not a dick though. If my granny was going to shit herself I’d expect her to use the gents if it was empty.

I'm sure you will find this very patronising, but I'm actually very sorry that you were brought up in such a way as to not understand normal boundaries.

This is why accessible toilet facilities need to be individual unisex rooms.

You're not trying to compare this to the OP's situation are you, please tell me you don't think they are remotely comparable!

An individual toilet is not a group space. Total false equivalence.

The toilet isn’t comparable unless it’s one room with 20 toilets just out in the open no walls or doors to hide behind just all peeing and pooping with one another. 🙄

@TomeTome It doesn't matter if they are individual cubicles

Sharon sling me a tampon mate I’ve ran out.. sorry ask babs she’s five toilets along red hair. Yeah that’s her. Thanks love fml 😂 Tanya has terrible shits. It stinks now. But Bob really needs a wiz so in he comes because his 9.

communal toilets man. Messy 😂😂

There are two individual toilets one for men and one for women, one is being used and an elderly person of the wrong sex for the empty toilet arrives. They are going to soil themselves. Should they wait or use the empty facility?

I’m very pro single sex spaces. They are extremely important for a multitude of reasons. I’m not a dick though. If my granny was going to shit herself I’d expect her to use the gents if it was empty.

Why would two fully enclosed individual toilets with different signs on be in any way comparable to communal changing areas?

Or more importantly why does this hypothetical scenario have anything to do with women and girls having single sex communal changing spaces?

@sollenwir

Just to draw your attention to this.

Women account for 51% of the population.

They have their rights embedded in law and plenty of provision made for them.

24% of the population are disabled.

And yet their rights are less engrained in policy and there is substantially less provision made for them in every aspect of life.

In many respects we are going to have to make some compromises, be that women’s rights, men’s rights, white rights and so forth, to uplift people who are in the minority - be that disabled, ethnic minorities, LGBTQIA+.

I realise your position is to be uncompromising.

But there does have to be a degree of flexibility, grey areas, and collective responsibility to combat issues or else how else are we to achieve equality?

Except it’s only ever women’s rights that are deemed unimportant enough to compromise. Women do not have ‘plenty of provision’ lmao loads of you are literally arguing it’s fine for the one single sex space for women at this pool to be used by boys!

An individual cubicle, yes? Not an open plan room. Completely different.

Under no circumstances at all should this boy have been taken in the women’s open plan changing room. And no alternative scenario you offer is going to make it Ok for the OP to have done this. It is never ok to bring a male person into the women’s changing room.

24% of the population are disabled

What proportion of those require mixed sex facilities?

It's fine, Mumsnet is a strange place.

It isn’t fine. Who are you to give away the rights of women and girls to a single sex space?

I think what this thread is doing is just making female carers feel unwelcome and misunderstood. OP did the best she could in a situation very few will ever face but is now going to be her everyday. She’s asked for ideas to handle it next time and assured posters on repeat that this isn’t a solution she wants to repeat. The response has been fairly unpleasant, myopic and sadly predictable. Those that will never share these issues are absolutely sure they would do better. Their solutions range from, stay home to miraculous curing of disability so waiting outside is achievable or waiting in the queue no longer a problem.

It’s a really hard stage @JustKeepSwimmingAlong I hope you meet with more compassion in real life.

@Thedm

This is nauseating to read.

I have posted twice already about the issues queuing for autistics. And I will copy and paste my previous post for you below. Please read it this time, and google the issues autistics have with queues and how this disability affects them, what the dangers are and so forth. Educate yourself.

“As I’ve said before - autistics have queue passes in most places/special assistance to avoid queuing at airports.

It is not that they “don’t want to queue”, it is that if they did queue they may end up with him screaming, yelling, lying on the floor thrashing around, self harming, lashing out and hitting others to name but a few things that can happen with meltdowns. Then she’ll have several days at home after this where he won’t eat or sleep properly and will have increased distress and greater chance of another meltdown.

Adequate provision should be available without having to queue.

The main reason there are queues is because they have lumped baby changers into a disabled space and thus opened it to families.

To resolve this they can put the baby changers in the mens and womens facilities.

Put that point to the leisure centre OP.”

Nobody has said OP should stay home or try to cure her disabled child. I think some posters can’t read very well to just be making up nonsense about legitimate concerns that the majority on this thread have raised. OP could’ve asked staff at the pool if there was a private space given her need was greater than any family queuing who didn’t have kids with disabilities. I’d have no issue letting OP skip the queue if it were me, perhaps in future they can ensure a room is kept available for her after her son’s lesson, but using a facility only for girls and women - no.

But actually, I do share the issue. I went through it with my own son with autism. I didn’t make the choice she made, nor have any of the mum’s in my “group” of autism mum friends. We don’t take our grown boys into women’s open plan changing rooms. It is not acceptable.

There are other options, but you’re the one who refuses to accept any alternative because we should all just move over for a boy. No. Standing in a queue with a boy who doesn’t like being wet… hmm.. what’s the solution… just bloody dry him in the queue! But no, she invaded a woman’s space and when a teenage girl complained, the OP just carried on.