To feel sad seeing a 7 week old baby at DC's nursery today

[comfysketchers]

Dropping my 15 month old off at nursery today before work and there was another woman there at the same time handing over a 7 week old sleeping baby.

He was absolutely tiny and I just felt so sad looking at him thinking that he barely even knows he is out of the womb and his mum is dropping him off to spend all day with strangers in a noisy nursery environment.

I should also add that I live in a country that has excellent parental leave from the government plus most private companies pay at least 10 weeks of full pay on top of that, with many paying much more than that.

YABU - It’s perfectly normal for a 7 week old baby to spend 8 hours per day in a nursery.

YANBU - A 7 week old baby should be at home with its mum.

A lot of assumptions are being made about what is best for babies and young children, without a lot of evidence. Including some PP saying that even a two year old gains no benefit from being in a nursery setting, which I think is absurd. My son has gained a huge amount from being with other children all day and doing structured activities.

As for the difference between mothers and fathers, my own view is that it would be hugely beneficial to most families and to society in general if a year's leave could be properly split between the two parents, with the mother taking the first half and the father taking the second half. We were in a position for my husband to take a month off with my son after I went back to work and two months over the following summer to do full time childcare. It has been fantastic for his relationship with our son and our relationship with each other.

Obviously there need to be legal and societal changes to normalise this, not least fathers having an equal right to enhanced pay rather than having to drop to the statutory minimum which makes SPL financially unviable for a lot of families. But I get the impression that a big blocker is that a lot of women just want to stay at home with their baby and don't want to share a year of paid leave with their partner. Whilst that is understandable on some level, it won't help close the pay gap.

Possibly so. But sending very small children to nursery is nothing to do with equality or less sexism: it's to do with hard economic facts, and with house prices (in particular) being so inflated that relatively few couples can manage on one income.

It can be dressed up as a spurious equality, but that's not what it's about.

And even if it were, children's mental health and development is a pretty big sacrifice for this unicorn-style notion of equality. Men and women are never going to be fully equal, because men are never going to give birth. This makes women massively different. Not lesser (I would say far greater), but undoubtedly different.

i don’t think I mentioned 2-3 years.

But even if I had, it would be perfectly possible to ensure that women are not disadvantaged by such a break, and that men were encouraged (ie pressured) to share the load by actually taking parental leave. That’s what a feminist society would ensure - not throwing both babies and women to the wolves so that corporations, and men, benefit.

So much focus here on what's best for the adults....

In terms of a newborn or very young baby, what's best for them is to be with their mother. That is the ideal scenario. Now, life happens obviously but let's not pretend that biology and nature don't exist.

If you willingly put your tiny baby in childcare when you don't have to I suggest you shouldn't have had a child. That is a valid and sensible choice a lot of the time.

Can you link to evidence that children mental health and development is damaged by going to nursery?

@comfysketchers one day you might find yourself in circumstances that are not what you hoped.

I can promise you if that happens, this judgment will be the sort of thing that will pop into your mind. You might be ok with that memory, but I wouldn’t be. It would make me feel embarrassed and terrible for my criticism of someone I know nothing about.

You are either very young or very naive but hopefully one day you will learn not to judge without walking in someone’s shoes, as they say.

(And no, mine started at age 1, for two days only a week. I was lucky, not better than another parent).

But I get the impression that a big blocker is that a lot of women just want to stay at home with their baby and don't want to share a year of paid leave with their partner.

I think you're absolutely right about this. @MargotBamborough

Whilst that is understandable on some level, it won't help close the pay gap

This is true, too. However, speaking as a woman who was able to spend her children's entire pre-school childhood with them, I would say that these women aren't in the slightest bit bothered about closing the pay gap.

In my ideal world, men would get proper paternity pay. I'd separate it to avoid fathers not taking it because some mothers would want to take all of their leave.

But it wouldn't be transferable to the mother and it would be on a use it or lose it basis. I'd say at least 3 months.

It would benefit mothers, fathers, babies and equality.

It is sad because either the parents can’t afford to be with him/her or they’re not coping with a newborn. In the uk most nurseries won’t have them before 3 months.

No we don’t know the circumstances, but it’s still sad imo.

@Cosywintertime I did link to something upthread. If you want more evidence, Google "nursery is bad for under twos".

How awful that you took the time to have a judge conversation with the staff about it.

you sounds nosey and judgemental. Awful traits

There is a reason maternity leave exists in most decent developed countries. Let’s not include the USA where there are clearly serious issues.

Ye,s I agree with you. I know I would have felf the same.

Like you, no judgement, people have to do what they have to do.

Ah yes, that's definitely come up with totally unbiased results...

Exactly, I remember reading a write up of that 2005 study just before my first child started at nursery and feeling absolutely shit.

As for the anecdotal evidence about the behaviour that poster saw from children at nursery as opposed to children of SAHP it is confirmation bias. My own experience is completely theopposite but similarly unreliable.

What I do think is true is that 17 years into parenting there is no neat formula for what is best for a child and although the vast majority of parents start out wanting to be perfect (nothing wrong with that) life is messy and unpredictable and sometimes you just have to do your best. I think that research and funding into early childhood development is hugely important and it should inform parents and childcare providers but it becomes so divisive. As someone said upthread the level of judgement levelled at women who choose or have to use childcare makes it very difficult to have an open discussion. This thread is a prime example, it starts with a fairly unpleasant post about a parent whose circumstances we know nothing about, and then people piling into to stick the boot in about neglect, damage abuse and how they would NEVER do that to their baby.

One thing I do know is that I’ve met quite a few parents over the years who have taken delight in harshly judging and looking down on others (usually mothers) often under the guise of how sad it is or what a shame for the child. Those people tend to produce children who can also be unpleasantly superior and consequently not hugely popular.

But that’s a very bias google. I’m sure if I googled nursery is good for under twos articles would pop up supporting that hypothesis too.

It is sad, and you have to assume there's a sad set of circumstances that has led to this situation.

It could be lots of things, pnd, a mother with problems needing support to cope for whom this is a choice that enables her to keep her baby, a mother with health problems who's having to use a nursery because she's having ongoing health treatment etc.

I am willing to bet it has not been a choice easily made.

I'm with you OP. Whatever the circumstances it's sad that a mother felt she had no choice but to leave her 7 week old baby with strangers. It's not judgemental to think that.

I feel sorry for both the mother and the baby. What the hell has happened to our society that anyone at all thinks this is perfectly fine.

There are countries where maternity leave is longer. And yes there often is a sacrifice.
And as the one who went through pregnancy labour and breastfeeding I wanted to be the one to be at home that first year. No woman should have to justify that thanks. That’s feminism .

I kept my kids home until 3. If I posted this judging you how would you feel about that?

It's isn't right in principle, but could be right in context. We just don't know.

I'm not sure what you want to get from this thread to be honest.

There could be any number of valid reasons why the Mum has done this and none of them are your business.

I’m really very sorry that happened to you - I’m sure you will have made a huge difference to what could not be avoided by doing all the things you have done to mitigate these difficult circumstances.

I’m afraid I don’t agree, though, that the negatives that you yourself acknowledge and which are impacted an increasing number of babies and mothers should not be mentioned because it will upset those who have already been impacted. To me it makes it more pressing to speak up.

im really sorry that it’s upset you though and I wish there was a way to talk about this issue without doing so.

@WinterDeWinter
’we still can be sad for the baby (and the mother) and agree that it will suffer and not shrug and look away. And not normalise it by pretending that there’s nothing that can be done about the drift to childcare for younger and younger babies, even though we have known for a very long time that young babies don’t benefit.’

I don’t think the baby will suffer, whole generations of families in most countries show this to be untrue. Better for a baby to be safe, warm and cared for.

also, who is drifting towards younger kids being in childcare? The opposite is true. Longer paid maternity and paternity means that kids are at home longer, didn’t you read the posts from Mums on here who had their kids 20 odd years ago and had no choice but to go back?

please stop spouting unproven nonsense.

You have those judgy pants hoiked up so high you'll need a course of Cannestan (sp?) there, OP.