Holiday , who is right/wrong

[glassyhag]

I'm going to try to be as simple as possible here.

Grand parents booked a cruise for summer 2025 and offer to take their eldest grandchild who will be 4 and offer the same to their nephew who will be 6. Both children play together occasionally and get on great at the grand parents house and aunties house, but don't spend a huge amount of time together else where. At 4 and 6 this means both kids will be eligible for the kids clubs within the same group and old enough to understand why they are not with their mum and dad at home.

Also , the nan's younger sister is going and taking her two children who will be 9 and 12. So lots of cousins having fun and help on hand to watch the younger ones. The parents of the grand child were 100% fine with this trip with grand parents despite initially being put out that the grand parents would not pay for them and the two other grand children to go on the same trip.

But something has been lost in translation and the parent has just realised 4 months on that the 6yo cousin is going (this was never hidden and has been openly discussed but the mum was pregnant and not sleeping well so may well have forgotten) and has expressed their unhappiness. They feel the grandparents should be taking their other grand child instead, who will be 3 at the time.

The grand parents have said they do not feel able to look after a 3 and a 4 year old for an entire week but will happily take both the children away for a week the following year and then the year after that take all 3 grand children away. ( she has 3 kids under age 3 ).

The grand parents are also planning on buying a motor home for retirement in 5 years, specifically to take the children travelling, as they will be old enough then to go for as long as they/the parents feel comfortable. Only adding this to show the GPs have every intention of spending some holidays with all the grand children every single year as soon as they are old enough. This trip is NOT a one off.

Anyway, now the parent has said her child is not allowed to go on the holiday as the grand parents are taking the nephew instead of the middle grand child. The grand parents have said they will not be forced into taking a child they don't feel they can safely care for , especially as he wouldn't be in the same kids club as his brother.

Who is being unreasonable?

I think that the problem is that your daughter was fine with one child going, until she knew about the nephew. So it is nothing to do with the 3 year old's feelings at all. It is to do with how the daughter gets on with the mother of the 6 year old. So her behaviour is ridiculous.

@justjeansandanicetop

Yes, that's how old her children are. Not my choice but obviously I stand by her choices. I can't do anything else.

My nephew is 4 NOW. But he will be 6 at the time of the holiday. I'm here with him now. He's an absolute delight of a kid, as is my eldest grand son. They get on brilliantly.

My daughter didn't turn up at my sisters tonight. I'm not shocked. Turns out she hasn't spoken to my youngest sister (nephews mum) in ten days so I'm not sure where she's suddenly got the information that she didn't know about my nephew also being invited. It's looking more likely that she actually was in full awareness of the arrangements previous to today but she's used it as a tool to beat me.

My nephew is still invited and I will not be bullied.

@glassyhag think she might feel you are giving too much time to your both your sisters' children and putting them before your actual grandchildren. I can see this and I am sure she is seeing this too! you are putting yourself into the position of carer for your youngest nephew and really it is not up to you to entertain him everytime you have your grandchildren on days out. Nephews mother should really be doing some nice things with her own son instead of leaving it to other people! Nephew will grow up thinking he has more fun with auntie than he has with his own mum who does nothing with him. why did she bother having kids at all if they just get in the way??? your daughter has probably grown up with you taking care of the other sisters children and her nose has been put out of joint there too. you say you regularly have them for over 24 hours at a time. why are you taking on the grandparent role for all your nephews and nieces????

So OP’s daughter should have said no months ago when OP asked to take the 4yo!

To say yes, then say no after it’s all been paid for is what’s crappy.

That you identify with this bratty behaviour is crappy.

And the daughter is an entitled twat for expecting her mum to pay for her, her DH and kids.

Not to mention expecting her mum to disinvite the 6yo excited nephew.

Wtaf? Terrifying that people have petty minds that think like this.

Older children shouldn’t be held back to be playmates. They’re not babysitters.

Maybe pay for your own holiday.

Who are all these adults that expect free holidays from their parents?!

You sound like a lovely grandmother and your offer is not only generous, but makes complete sense.

It’s your daughter who is being unreasonable and entitled - suspect she’s jealous that you’re paying for a nephew whose parent she doesn’t like instead of another grandchild.

I agree with you

A cruise is a ridiculous holiday for 2 young children, I do not think they are safe environment at all. I would not be taking any child on board one

If you think three will be too much and the clubs are 4+ I wouldn't take the 3 years old. Stand your ground and either 4 years old comes or doesn't

Op, you are generous in your offer.

It is reasonable and well planned out.
Your daughter has a choice to accept the offer or to decline.
The fact that two of her children have not been invited is not a problem to me. A three year old can easily be told that they will be old enough to go once they are four.
Your daughter's family should be encouraging their oldest to have a lovely adventure instead of teaching the kids to be jealous.

@glassyhag i have a little boy who will also be 4 in Jan 2025… you are very welcome to take him away with your 6 year old nephew!! I’ll even buy the ticket!!! 🤣

My in-laws took all their 11 grandchildren to Disney in America. Each grandchild was taken when they were of an age to enjoy and remember it so 7/8. It was fully understood that siblings would be going at different times but each would get their turn. We all appreciated how generous they were eing. Your daughter is being ridiculous to push you taking both siblings. The youngest won't be able to really enjoy a lot of what's on offer as he's too young and won't be in the same clubs as his sibling.

If anything I would postpone taking your gc on this kind of expensive holiday until they are at least 6 so they really get to enjoy everything. At 4 there will be loads they can't do and they won't really remember much about it later in life. Hopefully in a couple of years your daughter will have learnt to be more grateful.

We waited to go on a cruise until our kids were near teenagers, God forbid anything happens.

GPs sound lovely. I wouldn't want to look after a 3 and 4 year old for a week either - it'd be exhausting. Clearly the 6yo is easier to look after and mum wants the more time consuming 3yo out of her way for a week...

I would not have allowed my children to go on a cruise without me at such a young age. Any holiday really but particularly a cruise. Also l think it's ridiculous planning this for 2025 as who knows what the dc will be like in two years time. The 4 year old may be a child who never wants to be away from their own parents..who knows. You may be incapacitated with your knee and unable to run after them.
For me..and l am now a grandparent you are causing unnecessary angst by making all these plans years in advance . Sounds harsh but just go on your own holidays and take your gc somewhere for a day.

You said in a previous post “she feels she’s doing us a favour and we feel it’s the other way round.”

Some parents don’t see a week away from their child as a favour! Sure, if you’re taking their kids whilst they do something fun/adult then definitely a favour, but not just taking one for a week.

I think you need to discuss with your daughter whether she actually wants all this before you announce you’re taking all three away every year. I wouldn’t want my kids to be going on holiday without me every year so this may well not be the favour you seem to think.

Your later comment about not allowing yourself to be bullied is odd, I can’t see where any bullying has occurred?

This is all seems very odd to me and it’s coming across like you’re trying to paint yourself as the injured party who’s merely trying to do your bullying daughter a favour, when there’s way more to it than that. You need to step back and dial down the drama.

I don't understand why people look at a situation and believe there are no valid views other than their own.

There are plenty of people here who don't agree with you - so maybe your definitive statement of the rights and wrongs of the situation is just your opinion. I don't believe all those holding different views to you aren't "decent grandparents"

@glassyhag what is your relationship like with your daughter and what do you want it to be, the language of tool to beat me with and not be bullied is very emotive and sets up an idea of a particular dynamic.

but not my choice gives a different perspective as well.

And how often do you have your nephew and what is the relationship like between your daughter and your sister.

you clearly want to be a decent grandparent as spend time with them, in order to do so though you need a decent loving relationship with your daughter. Rightly or wrongly your daughter may well be feeling jealously that your are taking her nephew, that she has ended up with 3 children with a small age gap (that may not have been a choice) and is struggling and sees you prioritising your sister and nephew. That your sister gets to have her career because you step in.

jealousy is a very negative emotion, that doesn’t mean people don’t have it. It probably may seem petty to others but that doesn’t mean it isn’t what is going on. You say your daughter and sister are T best friends so clearly you are aware.

you need to stop I think and take a pause and work out what you want. At the moment it seems as if you have a concept of family, lots of siblings, your children have lots of siblings and there is your nephew an only child whose cousins are much older than him and you are trying to force a relationship between him and your daughters oldest child.

it is not just your choice to cultivate those experiences for him. And you need to recognise that at the moment doing so is not on,y not working but may come at a terrible cost.

as for your title holiday whose right or wrong - no one. Complex family dynamics are at play here

I don't think I have a clear-cut view on this one.

Your daughter seems to have been fine about only including one child initially and only seems bothered once she knows the other child is going. This seems really unreasonable to me and makes me think maybe she isn't a particularly reasonable person in general, which must be quite frustrating.

But that aside, I agree with a pp that this was never going to end well. There is such a small age gap that I think it's odd and unfair to leave one out and also odd to have made this decision for the year after next when you've no idea what the dynamics or personalities of the children will be at that point. I just feel like you've made life deliberately hard for yourself when there are lots of other ways you could have planned a family holiday, and it's unfortunate this has therefore overshadowed what was meant to be a really nice thing you are doing.

@glassyhag - have you thought that the 4 year old may not be happy being away from his Mum/home for so long at that age? My DS certainly wouldn’t have been.

Well I went to my sister last night and asked the youngest sister when she last spoke to my daughter and it was ten days ago! She also said they have never ever discussed this holiday. Nobody else in our family has talked her about the holiday so it's looking for and more like she DID know about it all and just decided to use it as a way to start an argument and kick off. Which is not unusual , but I didn't want to say that earlier and colour any perceptions of her. I genuinely just wanted to know if I was in the wrong.

Total and utter drip fed but she does have emotional regulation problems. Add in 3 tiny children and is looking increasingly like she's lashing out as she's just very unhappy and angry with everything. But this was her choice, we told her she was insane to have 3 babies so close together but she decided to go ahead and is now reaping the rewards of her situation ( that's not to say we're don't love them, we totally adore them ). I do prioritise my grand children, I recently missed out on a holiday I booked and paid last year before she was pregnant the third time as she was struggling with a 3 day old and 2 toddlers. I have the kids whenever she asks me to but my DH works full time doing 60 hour weeks and I still have a teenager and a house to run, friends to see and in learning a new skill I'm hoping to turn into a career so I can work from home. But I do have the grand kids 2-3 times a week and very soon it will be all 3 of them.

To the Pele saying it's insane to book a holiday so far in advance, we've always booked ahead. By doing so we get some amazing deals and it's easier to budget etc. 2025 we are going to Barbados on our own, then the Norwegian fjords with the kids, and then doing a Christmas market cruise with our teenager. My daughter is absolutely 100% looking forward to us taking all the kids away, she would probably let us do it next week but we are exhausted after 24 hours just with the eldest two at the moment.

People saying I'm too close to my nephews, my eldest 2 I'm incredibly close to. I'm a carer for the 7 yo and I couldn't love them anymore. Both have additional needs my sister and I spend a great deal of time together, she's my best friend and we survived a pretty shitty childhood together. My youngest nephew is a beautiful kid, neurotypical and his mum and dad lived with me for 6 months when he was younger so I am very close to him and he's an incredibly easy kiddo. He doesn't come out on EVERY trip by a long shot, just ones that are maybe too old for my grand kids. The oldest nephews will often miss out if it's something geared towards the youngest kids.

People saying a cruise ship isn't geared towards kids, the water parks , aqua slides, kids clubs, high ropes course, fair ground rides , arcades, kids menu and dodgems would say you are wrong 😂. It's not children that get injured on cruise ships, it's drunken adults and apart from that terrible tragedy with the toddler where the grand father dropped her out of the windows, I've never heard of a serious accident involving a child.

@Peridot1

My eldest grand son wouldn't hesitate to come away with us. He loves us dearly and Really appreciates the attention when it's just him. He's a delight, an absolute sponge that loves holidays and going to new places. Every time he comes here he looks at the photos we have taken and framed and I've got photos of his mum as a young teenager in a dinghy and recently when we went camping it became "his" boat and he's got a similar photo underneath her. It gives me massive pleasure to see him happy doing things like this.

You can invite whoever you want but i would be wary about assuming 4 year old is "the perfect age for kids club" - its very young to enjoy being left with strange adults and kids. The 6 yo will be fine but most of the 4 year olds i know would hate it & be miserable.

If how you plan to survive a cruise with a 4 yo is extensive kids club use, I'd be rethinking.

Just to say taking a four year old on a cruise sounds like an absolute nightmare!! Bad idea all round