Holiday , who is right/wrong

[glassyhag]

I'm going to try to be as simple as possible here.

Grand parents booked a cruise for summer 2025 and offer to take their eldest grandchild who will be 4 and offer the same to their nephew who will be 6. Both children play together occasionally and get on great at the grand parents house and aunties house, but don't spend a huge amount of time together else where. At 4 and 6 this means both kids will be eligible for the kids clubs within the same group and old enough to understand why they are not with their mum and dad at home.

Also , the nan's younger sister is going and taking her two children who will be 9 and 12. So lots of cousins having fun and help on hand to watch the younger ones. The parents of the grand child were 100% fine with this trip with grand parents despite initially being put out that the grand parents would not pay for them and the two other grand children to go on the same trip.

But something has been lost in translation and the parent has just realised 4 months on that the 6yo cousin is going (this was never hidden and has been openly discussed but the mum was pregnant and not sleeping well so may well have forgotten) and has expressed their unhappiness. They feel the grandparents should be taking their other grand child instead, who will be 3 at the time.

The grand parents have said they do not feel able to look after a 3 and a 4 year old for an entire week but will happily take both the children away for a week the following year and then the year after that take all 3 grand children away. ( she has 3 kids under age 3 ).

The grand parents are also planning on buying a motor home for retirement in 5 years, specifically to take the children travelling, as they will be old enough then to go for as long as they/the parents feel comfortable. Only adding this to show the GPs have every intention of spending some holidays with all the grand children every single year as soon as they are old enough. This trip is NOT a one off.

Anyway, now the parent has said her child is not allowed to go on the holiday as the grand parents are taking the nephew instead of the middle grand child. The grand parents have said they will not be forced into taking a child they don't feel they can safely care for , especially as he wouldn't be in the same kids club as his brother.

Who is being unreasonable?

For clarity the adult daughter and the mother of the 6 year old do not get on despite being cousins and being very close in age.

Are they cousins, or are they aunt and niece? Those aren't the same thing.

Of course its not 'pretty crappy'. It is a lot of responsibility and hard work to take two under fives away. You sound rather entitled.

I would take only who I want to take. If a child isn't allowed to go because their sibling isn't invited then that's fine. I wouldn't be manipulated or blackmailed. It's their kid missing out because of their choices. Let them explain it to their kid. I'd also reconsider providing so much childcare. You are clearly doing too much. Your adult child sounds very entitled.

My mum (64) takes my nephews away (10 and 8) but doesn't take my two (3&4). My two don't do overnights at my mums together unless it's a really special occasion like our anniversary or birthdays. She likes to have them separately because together they are bloody hard work. You only do what you are comfortable with.

If you can’t take all you don’t take any. If you are any sort of decent grandparent that would be obvious. Leaving children out is crap.

@OhNoForever Me sister would be her aunty? But they were raised playing together , lots of sleep overs etc and even briefly went to the same school.

So your daughter is going to prevent one of her kids going on (fully paid) holiday because she feels sour. Mother of the year right there!
OP, it is entirely your decision whom you take where. If your daughter doesn't allow her child to travel, it's up to her. It's a shame for your grandchild but nothing you can and should do about it.

I wouldn’t allow my young children to go with their grandparents on a cruise. Two younger children, plus older people plus the sea is a recipe for disaster.

Exactly this.

Yeah that's grand. Why did you call them cousins though?

I am a very decent grand parent thanks. I currently take the two eldest together for anything between 2 hours to 24 hours. But I don't take the baby as he is only 4 weeks old. So at what point does it become "crappy" exactly, for me to not have all 3 of them together? Is it "crappy" for me to have the youngest for a day out when the bigger ones are in school and he is not?

I always think you need to be careful with kids and their expectations. My own kids used to complain that their younger siblings had been out shopping/seeing family while they were in school and I had to point out that they had the same exact experiences when they were under 5. But now they are expected in school but when they leave school, the youngest will still be going through it. It may not be FAIR but it will still be equal and that's exactly what it will be with my grand kids. The eldest may come away with me but at some state the eldest will no longer want to go and the youngest will still get an extra 2-3 years before they get sick of us. So still equal.

But yes I agree 100% is my daughters choice. But I won't be changing my plans with my nephew just to suit her, especially when I've off my grand children would STILL be left behind.

I can see your reasoning but I absolutely would not let my 4 year old go and leave my 3 year old at home. At 3, they are old enough to understand and be upset that big sibling and cousin went away with nanny and they were left behind. I would be ok with older sibling doing something for a day with dgps on their own but not a holiday.

It’s not the same as one being at school and ‘feeling left out’. I have an older son and frequently go out with little two while he is at school, he moans when he sees they’ve been shopping but he’s at school so it was impossible for him to come.

The issue here OP is you’ve arranged a pretty grand holiday knowing from the outset that you’ll have to leave out a grandchild who is old enough to realise that and is one year younger than the youngest going. I believe you didn’t put much thought into it in the beginning hence you’re on MN asking for advice.

Sensible solution would have been to go on a lovely cruise, adults only, then arrange a more child friendly holiday with all the DGC, in this country.

Growing up I often felt second best to my cousins and it really affected my self worth. I was constantly trying to gain approval from my grandparents. Kids notice these things and it will mean nothing to a 3 year old that grannies hands were too full to take him, all he will remember is waving off bigger sibling, full of excitement, with granny and a suitcase. He will notice. It’s up to you how you feel about that but I can’t imagine it’s that much water off a ducks back to you else you wouldn’t be here.

@OhNoForever

I think it was just a slip. Families can be confusing. I don't even think my sisters kid and my grand kids are technically first cousins? Mate second or something? But we don't make that sort of distinction , we just encourage the kids to see each other as much loved family. When we take them out, it's mostly me and sister A, with all my nephews and whichever of my grandkids the event is suitable for, photos are always just captioned " cousins having fun ".

And last year we went on a huge family holiday with me , DH and our teen, sister A and her kids, my eldest daughter and her kids, my parents and Bs kid. So the kids have had plenty of time to play together and know each other so my daughter is incorrect about them not having a bond. I've got an album full of photos to show other wise. But it's still 100% her choice on where she shows her kids to go. It's a shame though it's the kids missing out.

@Newbootsplz

Do you genuinely think a 3 year old can fully understand what it means to be away from his parents for 7 nights? Do you think they can actually comprehend that and choose to go and abide by their choice? Because I don't.

Yes, @glassyhag i do think 3 year olds understand. I have a 3 year old who would be heartbroken to wave off older sibling (4) with granny. So I have children the same age as your DGC.

I think I you were hoping everyone on MN would make you feel better about leaving out your 3 year old DGC and taking their one year older sibling on an extravagant holiday.

I think who you are going with is irrelevant. You have 3 grandchildren. You want to take the eldest on holiday. Next time you’ll take the middle/youngest. It just so happens that your nephew is a similar age to eldest grandchild. But your relationship with nephew and grandchild are completely different relationships.

In that case neither can a 4 year old.

You're not unreasonable to feel it would be too much to cope with the 3 year old as well. Equally the parents are within their rights to say they don't want one DC having a holiday the other misses out on and that's their call. All of MN could find them unreasonable and it wouldn't change a thing.
So in a nutshell, your offer has been declined on this occasion. No big deal though, surely?

Your daughter is being unreasonable.
I have 3 siblings - some did holidays with family, some didn’t and the opportunity was right for some ages and not for others.

I don’t subscribe to the notion that my children have to receive exactly the same thing to foster relationships with family and friends.

It’s easy enough to redress the balance by doing something age appropriate for the middle child nearer the time.

As a parent, I would take it as an opportunity to do something special with the kids ‘left behind’.

Tell me you've never been on a cruise without telling me you've never been on a cruise 😂I've had much choppier ferry crossings to France than cruises, you can barely feel the ship moving.

I mean I understand not wanting to watch several kids 6 and under but I also think its bad form to invite one sibling and not the others (especially when we are talking almost the same age, like if it was the newborn and 4 year old big difference but not 3 and 4).

However if someone had done this I would simply have said 'no'.

I wouldn't expect them to pay for all of us but equally wouldn't be comfortable with them taking my young child away from me and planning on coping by ditching them in 'kids clubs'.

part of the problem is that my daughter thinks she's doing US a favour by allowing us to have the kids but in reality we feel we are doing her a favour

this is a difficult dynamic, so I sympathise.
As to the specific problem, I’m very much on the fence. I do agree that taking all the grandchildren will be too much for you, but also think it isn’t fair to single out the eldest.
I think the fairest thing is to rescind the offer for any grandchildren.

@Newbootsplz

I know MN far too well to expect ANYBODY to agree with me. It's a funny old forum and you can never predict which way things will go even when they seem clear cut. Tbh the split is about what I was expecting.

I total agree that my daughter can choose who her children go away with. But I also know that in the many get togethers we have had since booking this 4-5 months ago, including ones with my sister and my nephew, I know she was aware of the booking and who was going. BUT she's spent 30 months of the last 40 months pregnant and isn't getting much sleep etc. So it's possible she's so turned about and sleep deprived she's forgotten. But now she's fully expecting me to change the plans and I can't do that.

This may be a bit irrelevant, but absolutely no way would I allow my 5 year old to go on a cruise without me or dad, let alone 3/4 year olds. Pools, the sea, on and off excursions? Just no.

In my honest opinion, grandparents should go by themselves and have an amazing adult holidays. Take the kids to centre parcs another time.

Grandparents ANBU for inviting who they want (and it's completely inappropriate to take a 3 year old for a week away from parents on a cruise imo) and parents need to stop being so spoilt and be grateful for what they're being offered.