'I do all these things AND work FT'

[Bumpitybumper]

I see this on Mumsnet a lot but have just experienced it in real life. I have two friends (A&B). Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids and Friend B works FT in quite a stressful job. Friend B was just lamenting that they don't understand how Friend A fills her time as she manages to work FT AND do everything Friend A does.

The thing is, Friend B has a much smaller (yet lovely) house that is pretty chaotic in fun energetic way. It is never the tidiest or cleanest but it's not disgusting either. Friend A on the other hand has a much bigger house that is pretty immaculate most of the time. Friend A does all the school runs and volunteers at school. Friend B needs wraparound care in order to get to work so drops her kids of at 8 and collects around 17:30. Friend A cooks amazing meals for her family, has her children's friends round for fun playdates and activities and is generally incredibly on top of everything. Friend B is understandably more stretched and isn't in the position to cook lavish meals every day of the week or have friends round when she's at work. Friend B's husband does a lot (of course absolutely fair and right) so she doesn't have to attend every parents evening, sew all the badges for extracurricular clubs or assist with all the homework etc. Friend A does pretty much all of that as husband works such long hours.

I actually think both are amazing and very productive people that channel their energy, time and talent in different channels. I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard. Before people suggest I'm Friend A, I have my own business so don't really fit in either camp but used to be a SAHM so I guess can see Friend A's efforts more.

AIBU to think that Friend B is a bit deluded?

Being a perfect housewife is not the same as a high powered job. That’s delusional.

Why do so many women feel the need to compete with others? Different lives, different choices. No one gets a medal.

@housethatbuiltme

The government not expecting mothers of pre-school children to work is just a fact... it has nothing to do with how many do.

I still don't understand this point & how you claim it's a fact?

And since its perfectly acceptable in your world to ask complete strangers to justify their income maybe you wouldn't mind sharing to the class how do you pay for all this childcare while not having a job? (not that people actually care).

I don't think I was trying to make you justify your income. As I said I was curious because of your comment re work & obviously it's not ideal your DH is in that situation.

I work p/t & pretty much term time only but I have used childcare on days I didn't work before my dc started school & my dc go to clubs/camps etc during school holidays. I don't see it as paying someone else to raise them though!

@Bumpitybumper over invested much in these 'friends''lives?

Friend B is not deluded . YABVU.

@SouthLondonMum22 I agree with you but it only seems to be on here, I don't see it in real life.

Does Friend B think she does everything to the same standard? Confused about the question. I am Friend B but I am well aware that I live in a fairly untidy house, kids eat rubbish a lot of the time and I have zero time to volunteer and be in the PTA. I'm ok with that as being a SAHM wouldn't suit me at all.

Not at all. I would do very well from it actually. I also have a property in my name that I get the income for. You do realise most sahm don’t do it forever. If they do, they have some kind of agreement with their partner.
Going back to a crappy job where I’m worse off financially due to childcare and never see my child who would suffer due to his needs would make me miserable. That’s just me and our personal situation. Why does everyone else feel the need to judge.

I was a SAHM for a while until I had to bring some money in. I never got bored. My friend couldn't understand it at all but my days were all filled.

I work ft and so does dh. We have 3 kids. It's really tough trying to squeeze all that parent A does into parent b's life. I work in construction as does dh so the hrs are really long. We travel to sites etc a lot. Its really tough.
But we also grow a lot of our own veg, meal prep, my house is a little cluttered but I'm working on it.
It's certainly as tidy as any sahm I know.
Kids do sports and have mates over.
But the shit I get from stay at home parents is disgusting tbh.
I worked very hard to get where I am between being a young mum and a massive recession in our industry.
I'm fed up of being judged for working.

tbh when comparing one of the most important things that you’ve missed out is number and age of kids and whether they have SEN. Things like parents evening once a term and sewing badges on are a very small time commitment really. If A has loads of young kids or kids with SEN or health conditions B is most definitely not doing the same as her!

Imagine giving this much of a shit about other people's life choices.

You don't know though that B actually has to work. It is possible that she does, but it is also possible that she is a workaholic whose self worth is bound up in being 'productive' and that the family doesn't actually need her to work as many hours as she does. In the case of the OP, only one person was moaning, and that was B, so I am not going to assume that she was the reasonable one.

Of course it isn't paying someone else to raise them.

When someone claims that I always think they have a very short sighted view of what raising children actually entails.

It’s like in the USA where women don’t take maternity leave if they get it because they might get judged and lose out financially. So depressing the world we live in. Hope I don’t have to work forever to fulfill the ever ongoing ratrace.

its obvious the OP is friend B, and doing a poor job of hiding it!

I’ve been both and am currently B. There is no comparison. A is much easier in my opinion and experience . And I have 2 children with additional needs. I am not bitter or jealous as others have mentioned upthread just stating a fact.

Shock horror, some of us actually enjoy being with our children.

I work part time and am getting pretty tired in filling in the gaps for friend B (pick ups, drop offs, fun expensive outings during the holidays for B offspring). All of that I could tolerate if it didn’t come with the patronising comments about SAHM or part timers. We’re keeping the wheels turning for you friend B - please acknowledge it!

Working FT means the weekends are taken up with things you don’t have time to do in the week, things a SAHP would got done, leaving more leisure time on the weekend. Equally, unless you’re exceptionally lucky, most FT work necessitates wraparound care until the kids are old enough to look after themselves. Finally combining FT work with kids generally means having more things to get done than there are hours in the day.

I have one friend who works full time & is far more productive than me but her dc are a bit older.

I'm always forgetting something or rushing to get something but I was like this working 7 hours a week & am still the same at 21 hours! Too much dicking about on MNs perhaps!

This is all I think about when someone tells me they're a SAHM. I'm married and we pool funds but damn right I could support myself (and kids) if we separated. My pension pot is twice the size of DHs as he 'never really thought about pensions' before we met. I can't imagine being a woman, not earning, married to a man who may be as crap with money as my DH is, or was, as I control all the finances!

It depends on who is moaning.

If, as in this case, it is the working mum who is questioning how the SAHM of school aged kids spends her time, then it’s obvious that anyone can fill their day with cleaning and volunteering (and even fun things!).

But if it was a SAHM of school aged kids complaining about their heavy load, then I think it’s legitimate for working mums to say that (barring kids with SN, extra caring responsibilities etc) they have a harder lot. When you unpack these posts there’s always lots of extra cleaning, cooking from scratch, gym, volunteering, etc. Much of this is voluntary and if the SAHM is having a tough time there is always the option to dial it back. Working mums don’t have that option - they have no choice but to manage the essentials on top of their day job.

(I have done both!)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-and-your-family-quick-guide/universal-credit-further-information-for-families

Child aged under 3 - you will not be expected to look for work.

Simple facts, its actually just decreased to 3 with the introduction of childcare for younger kids, it use to be 5 year old.

But the OP specifically does not judge either parent’s actual parenting, she simply comments on the specific activities that A does and which B claims she also does. It turns out it genuinely is bollocks that B does what A does plus work - she in fact does not do weekday playdates or volunteering, does not manage always to keep on top of home admin or housework, does not cook lavish meals, does not sew on badges and does use wraparound care. It is other posters who are making value judgements about these activities and equating them to good parenting v bad parenting, or good ways of spending time v wasting time, rather than simply agreeing they are both different parents who do things differently and allocate their time in different ways. There is no need to point out to A that she doesn’t do paid work, but apparently B is too dim to understand that A can and does do things that B does not, including cooking more lavish meals, volunteering more, having other people’s children round more, not using paid wraparound childcare, having higher standards of housework, and keeping on top of home admin. B is the judgemental one, because she is actively attempting to demean A. A has made no such attempts on B.

It's a bit silly to say that you don't see how A fills her day as you have no clue exactly what she DOES or what her house set up is apart from the minimal detail that OP has given. Maybe she's got 3 bathrooms, for example, and a large garden front and back which takes a lot of upkeep. Or maybe she has an allotment and spends time there.. Maybe multiple kids, maybe they do a lot of sport or activities each day. Maybe she enjoys making meals like very fancy curries from scratch, grinding spices and making fresh curry pastes. Or baking bread, cakes, pies every few days. Maybe she goes to the gym a few times a week or swimming. Perhaps she has an elderly parent ior neighbour who she sees a lot or other caring responsiblities. Maybe she likes to go to the nail or hair salon every week during the week. Maybe she's got a very active dog who needs a daily walk of 1.5 hours. Maybe she is very hands on with homework and sits down and gives it all her attention instead of trying to supervise it while she's doing some domestic duty like folding washing or stirring something at the hob. If her husband works away a lot or does very long hours then literally everything falls to her. Even things like making medical appointments and other arrangements and taking the children to them falls to her.

It shows a lack of imagination or understanding of others' lives if you can't recognise that their experience may be very different to your own. What you glean from a short conversation with someone or a parent's appearance at the school gate means nothing.

I've been at various times a SAHM, worked part time and worked full time. My DH works very long hours and is often away. I am 50, working FT and KNACKERED and slowly starting to resent the huge amount of time and energy it takes up from my life. I don't like the stress it brings. When my kids were very little I was SAHM for 3 years. Personally I think they really benefited from my extra time and attention. There just isn't a way when you work FT that you can give your kids, home, your partner, relatives, friends and yourself, the time and attention that makes life more rounded and pleasant. There aren't many people who retire and wish themselves back at work, and there's a reason for that.

I can totally understand why it’s not for everyone but I took a couple of years out and had the time of my life, despite becoming a mum also being one of the hardest things I’ve done. I was that mum at all the classes, singing Wind the Bobbin Up with gusto. And yes, I did find it better than having a career and a senior position. Maybe I wouldn’t have if I didn’t work such ridiculous hours though. I love reading and cooking, two things I don’t have much time for when working, so I did those things when my baby slept.