'I do all these things AND work FT'

[Bumpitybumper]

I see this on Mumsnet a lot but have just experienced it in real life. I have two friends (A&B). Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids and Friend B works FT in quite a stressful job. Friend B was just lamenting that they don't understand how Friend A fills her time as she manages to work FT AND do everything Friend A does.

The thing is, Friend B has a much smaller (yet lovely) house that is pretty chaotic in fun energetic way. It is never the tidiest or cleanest but it's not disgusting either. Friend A on the other hand has a much bigger house that is pretty immaculate most of the time. Friend A does all the school runs and volunteers at school. Friend B needs wraparound care in order to get to work so drops her kids of at 8 and collects around 17:30. Friend A cooks amazing meals for her family, has her children's friends round for fun playdates and activities and is generally incredibly on top of everything. Friend B is understandably more stretched and isn't in the position to cook lavish meals every day of the week or have friends round when she's at work. Friend B's husband does a lot (of course absolutely fair and right) so she doesn't have to attend every parents evening, sew all the badges for extracurricular clubs or assist with all the homework etc. Friend A does pretty much all of that as husband works such long hours.

I actually think both are amazing and very productive people that channel their energy, time and talent in different channels. I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard. Before people suggest I'm Friend A, I have my own business so don't really fit in either camp but used to be a SAHM so I guess can see Friend A's efforts more.

AIBU to think that Friend B is a bit deluded?

Why does it have to be one or the other? Especially when it comes to mothers.

Do fathers who work not enjoy being with their children?

@housethatbuiltme why are you talking about benefits though?

Universal credits are not a universal benefit?

Do fathers who work not enjoy being with their children?

Quite

@Kdubs1981 thought provoking and probably some truth in your viewpoint too.

Perhaps I see friend A's approach as showing men that child rearing and housework is still a predominately female task and therefore even those of us who do work just as hard as our male partner, are expected to pick up the lions share of the 'wife work.

Some may say the only difference is the income of the male counterpart. Others would say its the female's attitude to being self reliant and therefore choosing to pursue a rewarding career regardless of their partners income.

Personally, I'd never give my career even if DH suddenly got a huge promotion. Its about being satisfied in my own self, and my strong feminist principals. I also picked a husband who does at least his equal share of everything.

It's a bit silly to say that you don't see how A fills her day as you have no clue exactly what she DOES. Maybe she enjoys making meals like very fancy curries from scratch, grinding spices and making fresh curry pastes. Or baking bread, cakes, pies every few days. Maybe she goes to the gym a few times a week or swimming.

Well this was reply to statement that A is so busy and hardworking. In my book, going to the gym and grinding spices would not fall under hard work.

Why is it judging to point out that so many women who end up as SAHMs are vulnerable to financial abuse? there are literally daily threads on here where SAHMs are in financially abusive situations and can't leave because they have no means to do so.

All the posters saying 'I'm alright I've got money' are very much in the minority.

Perhaps this is a situation close to home because I'm working alongside a guy who has four kids and his wife stays at home. Outwardly he seems financially wealthy (multi millionaire) and doing well, his wife certainly seems to think so. She seems a very happy content super mum doing it all. Nice house, nice home. What she doesn't know is that he is secretly upto his eyeballs in debt, having over leveraged on all their properties and is on the verge of bankruptcy. He has been talking about it at work and asking for a greater salary. He looks tired and worn out with the stress. Sadly he's also very close to being made redundant, so it's all built on a house of cards. His wife knows absolutely nothing and is still booking holidays. We've said multiple times he needs to tell her, he's said if he does she'll leave him. It's such a mess and I do feel very sorry for her. All the social media #bestlife are built on a pack of lies.

@housethatbuiltme you only get benefits if on a low income. I'm not sure why that means the government doesn't expect mothers of young dc to work?

But this is what all working mothers tell themselves, including myself. It’s not really true though, which is OP’s point.

@Mirabai do working dads tell themselves the same? Or is it just mothers who should feel shame for daring to exist as a human being in their own right?

You've shown exactly my point in the first sentence by only referring to mothers. Dads can do what they like, do zero parenting or housework and it's fine because the man works long hours... but if a woman works full time gasp she should be ashamed at how she's failing her dc and living in squalor. You see the double standard here?

I am not sure why ANYBODY cares about how anyone else runs their life.

Whilst @user8746's shows a lack of imagination, yours shows poor imagination and empathy.

Do you and your partner both not work because you both like your kids? Imagine a society where anyone with a child under 12 or 16 didn't work because they "actually enjoyed being with their children"

You missed out the prophecy on how A's kids will grow up

I have been accused of secretly being A and then of being B on this thread and I guess you're suggesting that neither exists at all. I guess it is the internet so you'll never know. In fact everyone replying to this thread could be lying and manufacturing kids, husbands and careers, commenting from completely fictitious positions.

The only thing I generally disagree with is when working mums say they do everything the SAHM does and work.....when they have babies- primary age kids.....because unless you're nannying or childminding with your own child, you're not actually doing the childcare aspect in the hours you're working. If you work as a GP for example you're not seeing patients and looking after a toddler at the same time! (I say that as someone who has been a SAHM, worked pt and now ft - although my kids are teens so don't need childcare as such)

But with parents of older children (who don't have SEN or medical needs) a lot of the things SAHP do is stuff everyone else fits round paid work.

It is very easy to get frazzled when you're FT and trying to keep up with everything. I work in a primary school and the parents who work FT are generally very appreciative of the SAHMs/part-timers at being able to pick up some of the slack for them eg. send class whatsapp reminders about school events, or offer their services to the PTA, or pick up their child when they have a late meeting at work, or take their kids on play dates.

If we could all be more supportive of each other, understand that someone else's experience/life set up is not the same as ours and not be jealous or judgemental of each other's situation then life would be much more pleasant!

Friend A doesn't do what friend B does and friend B doesn't do what friend A does. The big difference is friend A realises she doesn't do the paid work friend B does whereas friend B seems to think she does everything friend A does whilst she is at work, which she cannot do. She cannot be doing all the before and after school childcare, the sick days childcare, the holiday childcare etc to a high standard whilst also having a busy high flying career during the same hours.

They are both busy but doing different things. Friend B gets paid for being busy whereas friend A doesn't so should expect to be less busy. Who would expect to be as busy for £0 a year as someone else who gets £30,000, £50,000, £100,000? Friend B isn't working out of the goodness of her heart. She does it for money and presumably wouldn't do it for free. Friend B should wise up.

Another post from someone who can't recognise that someone else's setup might be different from theirs. Some families contain working parents who have jobs that you CAN'T work from home for. Or they work away, or at least out of the local area during the day. Or they can't take unplanned leave at all but they COULD take leave if they planned 3 months ahead (useless if you get a call from school to say your child has just vomited and needs collecting). They then rely on someone else to mind their child eg grandparents, nanny/childminder or family friend.

I think you are the stirrer OP.
B is ok - literally no one cares if she doesn’t hand sew badges.

Yes, exactly this. B doesn't want to be a SAHM either and to be honest I have never suspected her of being jealous of A or nasty about her choices. This is why it is so confusing that she doesn't seem to acknowledge all that A does even if B doesn't want that for herself.

It would be strange on any walk of life for someone to not at least acknowledge where time and effort has been spent. If I saw someone with an immaculate model railway collection that they had made and painted themselves, I would acknowledge that it would have taken a lot of work to complete. I may not want one myself or compare it to paid work, but it is still something they have done and achieved. If I was to cobble together a small, more amateurish trainset that served the purposes I needed then of course I could argue that I have made a model train set in a fraction of the time and a better one wouldn't benefit me or wider society, but that wouldn't change the fact that the enthusiast's train set was made to a better standard.

Her parenting is not of a better standard though. Her cooking and cleaning might be, but those things are not important. As long as B reads to her kids and spends quality time with them then she is a better role model.

These are clearly awful situations. Really not all the situations though. I’m sick of being time I’m stupid, awful, some kind of 50s housewife and my husband doenst respect me because I’m taking a few years to solely look after the kid. I’d be a mess if I was working right now (especially having just gone through ivf). It would be nice if women just respected each other. There is such black and white thinking on these threads and I find it really depressing.

I don't care that B doesn't sew on badges. I just know the bloody things take ages to sew on and A has them all carefully added to each uniform. It is something that takes time and effort and just an insignificant but hopefully insightful example of what A does that B doesn't. There are plenty more that I could reel off involving cake sales, World Book Day etc but I don't want to bore people. I don't have many badges sewn on myself so I say it from a place of no real judgement.

I'm not stirring the pot as I haven't told A what B said, nor would I. I'm not interested in starting drama. I just wondered what other people thought about this situation and if they shared my opinion. Clearly some do, some don't!

Sometimes they don’t actually. In my circle there is judgment of the men who work all the time and don’t look after the kids at all, definitely! I met one sahd and everyone loved him. 🙄 but no it’s the sahm who get treated like dirt.

@CurlyhairedAssassin wrong. I have one of those jobs that I can't work from home. My partner has one of those jobs that requires him to work away a lot. But guess what? We still make it work. We don't have grandparents close by to collect them at the drop of the hat.
The PP that I quoted made it seem like working parents have an army that deals with their kids when they're working. Not always the case. Some of us actually have to do it all. I'm not saying being a SAHM is easy cause quite frankly I wouldn't wanna be with my kids 24/7 (not that friend A is cause her kids are at school) but sometimes people have to do everything.
And bloody hell those single mams and dads too.

I’ve been both a sahm (currently) and a working mum. Both are exhausting, rewarding and have their own challenges. I don’t give a flying fox about what anyone else is doing as long as they’re not neglecting their kids.

I’m friends with both camps and also business owners like you OP. Haven’t once heard one criticise the others’ choices. In real life I think most of us are just too busy doing our best to bother thinking about what anyone else else is up to.

Your judgey friend is either a bit of an arse or is insecure in her own choices. Most normal adults understand that people who are happy with their own lives doesn’t waste time judging others.

Exactly this.
I've honestly never understood mothers who are so hyper fixated on paying strangers to bring up their children for them so they can work full time (unless they need to work/can't look after their kids for dire financial or health reasons). These are precious childhood years you'll NEVER get back.

Some so called self proclaimed "feminists" act like a woman has to reject all traditional gender roles in order to be equal (which is utter rubbish and very unfeminist because it implies that the work of looking after and forming your own children is of lesser value than working outside the home) but I don't at all envy men in the first place who work full time and therefore don't get to be as involved day to day with their children.

Shock, horror, I would love my children more than anything and I actually WANT to spend precious time with my own kids and would happily sacrifice my job/career during their childhood to spend irreplaceable time with them and bring them up, seeing as I'm their parent. Unless something drastic happened, my plan is to be a stay at home mother for my children and make the relevant financial sacrifices to enable this to happen as I'm not prepared to miss out on so much of their daily lives and run myself ragged in the process of prioritising my job and therefore trying to fit my kids/my share of household stuff around my full time job. It's just not worth it and priorities are all wrong. I would want to return to work instead when they're teens/adults.

I've sacrificed a lot for my career and love my job but I have absolutely no idea how mothers (or fathers for that matter) can idolise a career so much :S How can anybody compare a job to the value of a human being - especially your very own child? Especially when I've already had the time pre kids to focus on my education/career and I can go back to this or another job when they're grown up. No one lies on their deathbed wishing they worked more...