'I do all these things AND work FT'

[Bumpitybumper]

I see this on Mumsnet a lot but have just experienced it in real life. I have two friends (A&B). Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids and Friend B works FT in quite a stressful job. Friend B was just lamenting that they don't understand how Friend A fills her time as she manages to work FT AND do everything Friend A does.

The thing is, Friend B has a much smaller (yet lovely) house that is pretty chaotic in fun energetic way. It is never the tidiest or cleanest but it's not disgusting either. Friend A on the other hand has a much bigger house that is pretty immaculate most of the time. Friend A does all the school runs and volunteers at school. Friend B needs wraparound care in order to get to work so drops her kids of at 8 and collects around 17:30. Friend A cooks amazing meals for her family, has her children's friends round for fun playdates and activities and is generally incredibly on top of everything. Friend B is understandably more stretched and isn't in the position to cook lavish meals every day of the week or have friends round when she's at work. Friend B's husband does a lot (of course absolutely fair and right) so she doesn't have to attend every parents evening, sew all the badges for extracurricular clubs or assist with all the homework etc. Friend A does pretty much all of that as husband works such long hours.

I actually think both are amazing and very productive people that channel their energy, time and talent in different channels. I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard. Before people suggest I'm Friend A, I have my own business so don't really fit in either camp but used to be a SAHM so I guess can see Friend A's efforts more.

AIBU to think that Friend B is a bit deluded?

Yes. I would not be surprised if Friend B's defensiveness is due to a feeling of being judged. Friend A may not realise it but is probably flaunting the fact that they have a near perfect life and everything is beautiful. When you are run ragged and barely holding everything together it does not take much. Perfect people with perfect homes and perfect children do tend to judge others.

FWIW DC, who have done OK despite the lack of parenting, claim to have been raised by wolves. Certainly it became clear to them early on that they had to sort out their own homework, and know which kit was needed each day.

See my experience is the total opposite!

my SAHM friends or part time working friends are all absolutely dreadful at organising or getting anything done. They have too much time and so just never get round to it. none of them cook or have really clean or tidy homes.

My Nan always said ‘if you want something doing, ask a busy person’ and it’s so true. I’m much more likely to get shit done because I have to be organised and I don’t have time to procrastinate and forget!

if we want a night out, I’ll be planning it and booking it. ( around 2 sometimes 4 kids, 40 hours work and looking after the house ) - they all admit I’m much more reliable!

"I think it annoys me as A would happily acknowledge B's hard work and efforts in her career but B seems unable to acknowledge what A does and achieves."

It would annoy me too. A sounds like a nicer person than B.

I was SAHM for years, now working 3 hours a day so still playing the role most of the time, DH works long hours. So I'm very close to A. But I totally get where B is coming from. I have a friend who is still SAHM and I said to DH the other day what on earth does she do all day. When youngest started school I would go to the gym or grocery shop/run errands, clean the house, cook meals from scratch and still sit around watching Loose Women or browsing on here. A has a very simple easy life and B is probably tired and stressed and head spinning from the mental load. Yes she is being bitchy when A isn't complaining but I totally see why, it must be a bit infuriating.

Friend A is clearly winning at life. Big house, rich husband. Time and inclination to fart around getting the house looking pristine and cooking stellar meals. All credit to her for volunteering on the PTA, someone has to help out and we all benefit from school raising money.

What she does not have is a full time job. She makes busy work for herself because she doesn't need to work.

This is all very well and good if she a) likes doing it, b) is rock solid in her marriage and c) husband is super healthy, will outlive us all or has good life insurance.

Personally I'd be bored and I wouldn't want to be reliant on a man.

Friend B probably gets pissed off at someone making out that parenting school aged kids and running a house is a full time job. It's not but it's nice when it is. If that's your thing.

Most of my SAHM friends actually work a bit and are happy having less money and more time.

It’s so misogynistic and nasty.
I’m a sahm atm. My self esteem is so low because of people like those on this thread. I have a high needs kid and I find being with him ft absolutely exhausting, yet I have upmost respect for my friends who are working. Do they all secretly hate me and find me stupid? :( I took a mental health break from work quite a few years ago and that’s ok apparently but now looking after my kid full time is supposedly bad. Great.

I'm not sure that saying not everyone would consider Parent A to be lucky automatically means that they are jealous. Not every woman believes that being a SAHM is the ideal and not every woman secretly wishes to be a SAHM.

Obviously the fact that she has given birth and is therefore a mother doesn't mean she is 'doing everything' that friend A is doing.

I think her comment was actually really offensive to friend A.

The one thing I've learnt as a 50+ year old is that being SAHM / housewife is a really dangerous position to put yourself in beyond a few years. So many wives end up ditched later down the line with no work experience and not enough income to live. The reality is that a lot of men get bored with their stay at home wives and take them for granted. Along comes a shiny interesting work colleague and off they go. It's just happenned to a friend after 35 years of marriage. At 55 she is now trying to get a job. Friend B is wiser than Friend A and the shiny house is worthless down the track!

Frankly I do think he kills himself for a boss that doesn't give too shits (he definitely deserves a raise but then I'm bias)... he choose too though, hes very work proud and I stay out of his work life because its his business and life choices.

The government not expecting mothers of pre-school children to work is just a fact... it has nothing to do with how many do.

And since its perfectly acceptable in your world to ask complete strangers to justify their income maybe you wouldn't mind sharing to the class how do you pay for all this childcare while not having a job? (not that people actually care).

Where does OP state that friend A is totally financially dependent on her DH?

She may well be, but maybe not.

I am SAHM of three and am financially independent and always will be.

Genuine question, all those posters who are SAHMs, do you worry about financial security if your spouse were to end the marriage? do you have a plan as to what you would do?

I'm just not sure I could ever live with that level of insecurity. I had it drilled into me early on, always earn your own money, so cannot get my head around handing that security over to someone else. A read of the relationships board or divorce board is just such sober reading, with a lot of women being totally blindsided by cheating spouses or mid life crisis divorces.

I'm a single parent no after-school care, their dad has them one eve during the week and I cook meals from scratch, prepare their lunch boxes, help with homework/learning, work full-time, do all parents eves/medical appointments, take them to all their clubs, take them on holiday, look after in holiday except when their dad has them. House 4 bed detached is reasonably clean/tidy as I can't stand lots of mess, no cleaner. Garden could be better but it's huge and it's my least favourite job. Is it hard work? Abso-fucking-lutely.

If friend B was completely happy and fulfilled in her life why would she even compare her life to friend A? Why would she feel the need to big herself up and tear friend A down if she was soo happy and content with her own life?

For the record no judgement of either Friend A or Friend B. And it sounds as if Friend B is tactless, but ultimately her broader point is more correct.

And your use of the word “standards” is telling. A child who is raised in a beautifully appointed home and fed organic, balanced meals three times a day by a mum who collects them from school isn’t automatically being raised “better”.

There isn’t anything inherent either to working mums or SAHMs which makes them better parents. The idea that a working mum must automatically be “jealous” of a SAHM because she is unable to provide the same level of hands on care is a very unhelpful take. There are pluses and minuses of both scenarios and both models.

Like many people on here I find the comparisons unhelpful and inflammatory. But the bare facts are that juggling a demanding FT job, multiple kids and a home is inherently more stressful and difficult than just keeping a nice home. B, like other working mums, probably finds the comparison between cooking meals and cleaning and being on the PTA and working a nine hour shift before you do all of this crashingly insensitive.

I'm not sure that saying not everyone would consider Parent A to be lucky automatically means that they are jealous. Not every woman believes that being a SAHM is the ideal and not every woman secretly wishes to be a SAHM.

I think the above narrative is quite outdated. I appreciate that I live in a bit of a bubble but in my world a lot of mums work p/t & dads often do too. Dads certainly work flexi/remotely & at pick up/drops off it's pretty much 50/50.

I suspect you're in the minority. But your financial independence has given you that choice, fair enough. The majority which may include the OPs friend may very well be dependent, which does make them vulnerable. There's no getting away from that fact.

I have a friend like A and I am B. I get irritated when A moans to me about having no time when it’s clear I have far less time. Friend A fannys around making homemade Christmas decorations and then moans about not having enough hours in the day. I wouldn’t have said what friend B said but I often think it. You wouldn’t complain to a skint friend about having no money when you can’t afford a new conservatory while they’re scraping pennies to buy a loaf of bread. Well for person B just swap time for money - person A could also be more sensitive if she’s moaning she has too much to do when B really does have much less time to spend how she likes.

It isn't a competition.

comparison is the thief of joy.

on repeat.

But this is what all working mothers tell themselves, including myself. It’s not really true though, which is OP’s point.

Working FT means the weekends are taken up with things you don’t have time to do in the week, things a SAHP would got done, leaving more leisure time on the weekend. Equally, unless you’re exceptionally lucky, most FT work necessitates wraparound care until the kids are old enough to look after themselves. Finally combining FT work with kids generally means having more things to get done than there are hours in the day.

Thegruffalochikd, but is 'fannying around', as you call it - making homemade Christmas decorations of less value than going to work?

This.

@Busephalus its a choice and it sounds a lot more pleasant. If she needs time she can find it right there. I can’t just not go into work because I’m too busy.

It's definitely a popular assumption on here. Whenever the topic comes up, those who disagree with the SAHM setup or don't automatically believe it is lucky or ideal are always accused of jealousy and bitterness.

Now I only work part time i do wonder how I managed to work full time and have a baby and toddler! But I have no trouble filling my days, though a lot is stuff I just couldn't do back then - reading, going for a coffee and look around shops, meets friends for lunch and museum, have dogs! Today I spent half of it putting together our photo calendar and Christmas card - didn't do that with young kids.
I do know people who are super organised and can do full time work plus be a school governor plus look after elderly parents plus keep an immaculate home - but they never sit down and relax. Even then they still need outside help.

Can't be bothered to read it all but B's kids will grow up remembering their own homework/clarinets/form/money, etc., and will have a good work ethic, appreciating women and men can be equal in the workplace.

A and B are both awesome in different ways.

@Bumpitybumper can you not just nod and smile rather than starting a thread about it. Probably neither of their lives are perfect.