'I do all these things AND work FT'

[Bumpitybumper]

I see this on Mumsnet a lot but have just experienced it in real life. I have two friends (A&B). Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids and Friend B works FT in quite a stressful job. Friend B was just lamenting that they don't understand how Friend A fills her time as she manages to work FT AND do everything Friend A does.

The thing is, Friend B has a much smaller (yet lovely) house that is pretty chaotic in fun energetic way. It is never the tidiest or cleanest but it's not disgusting either. Friend A on the other hand has a much bigger house that is pretty immaculate most of the time. Friend A does all the school runs and volunteers at school. Friend B needs wraparound care in order to get to work so drops her kids of at 8 and collects around 17:30. Friend A cooks amazing meals for her family, has her children's friends round for fun playdates and activities and is generally incredibly on top of everything. Friend B is understandably more stretched and isn't in the position to cook lavish meals every day of the week or have friends round when she's at work. Friend B's husband does a lot (of course absolutely fair and right) so she doesn't have to attend every parents evening, sew all the badges for extracurricular clubs or assist with all the homework etc. Friend A does pretty much all of that as husband works such long hours.

I actually think both are amazing and very productive people that channel their energy, time and talent in different channels. I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard. Before people suggest I'm Friend A, I have my own business so don't really fit in either camp but used to be a SAHM so I guess can see Friend A's efforts more.

AIBU to think that Friend B is a bit deluded?

Interesting take on it. I would say it's working women who bring in a wage and then take on majority of child rearing, domestic labour and mental load in comparison with their male partners that are the patriarchy's dream. I count myself in that crew by the way.

I couldn't vote, as I felt your options didn't align.

It really comes down to different preferences and individual choices, as others have said. I work f/t in a very busy role, 3 DC, single parent, kids do loads of sports. My life is very very hectic.

I sometimes think I envy other working p/t or not at all - however, from experience, I know I am actually less productive when I have more time, and I require the stimulus that my job provides (not to mind career and salary that I need). I could certainly do with more help, and I wish I had a spouse to share it with.

However, in practice, without the structure and intellectual demands work places on me, I'd be overall unhappier and would be quite unproductive, probably not producing lavish meals and having a million play dates either.

What stands out to me is that Friend B is really highlighting some issue she has or perceives, rather than truly offering a commentary on Friend A's choices. It isn't that she is deluded (and for the record, no, A is not doing as much as B, she just isn't - she has no external work demands placed on her, for example) as to all that A does, it is that she is looking at a perceived better lifestyle that she wishes she could have (even if, like me, it might not truly suit her).

I do wish women could be free to make choices without endless judgment.

Friend B is probably frazzled and stressed and maybe secretly dissatisfied. Maybe that has led to judgement of others to try to make herself feel better about her life.

Pretty sure it's not jealousy, why on earth would anyone want As life, she sounds like a 50s skivvy.

Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids

Good joke, OP.

You're not a SAHM if your kids are at school all day! You're a SAHM if your kids are at home. Friend A's house should be bloody immaculate and she should be doing all the things she does as she has no kids to look after and no job.

Team Friend B on this.

They’re both valid.

Why is it always a race to the bottom with some parents?

I’ll never forget when my first was born he woke every two hours and meeting another mum who told me I had it easy as hers woke every hour and thinking ‘Oh, well I’m no longer exhausted then, you’ve solved it’.

If more people were a bit more supportive of each other maybe we would all be a bit happier.

Gosh poor friend B. She works so hard, and yet her life will never be as nice as friend A’s, and nor are her children’s lives. Friend A seems to have it all and want a medal as well!

I agree B should keep her thoughts to herself. But honestly, this constant refrain from SAHMs that any woman who questions the lifestyle is jealous really grinds my gears. There are multiple reasons why many women prefer work over childcare and housework, and multiple reasons why some women don't think the SAHM model is good for them or for women in general. During my thankfully short stint as a SAHM, I was desperately jealous of women who got to go out to work. I think its rude to be critical of a friends lifestyle, but equally rude to dismiss other women's views as based in jealousy simply because you don't agree with them.

Oh the joys of never having a DC who is poorly but well done, I'm sure 'team' B will have stickers or pom poms or something. Or maybe those foam hands so you can use them to pat yourself on the back.

Nothing wrong with friend A’s lifestyle choices at all of course, but the things you’ve mentioned as what she does “extra” would be things I’d think of as treats - having a big house, being able to host nice relaxed play dates for friends, time to help out with the school at leisure!(and as such be there for her kids/ be involved in their events).

It would be a kick in the teeth for B to see these - especially the big immaculate house - as things that others view as equivalent to her job that puts food on the table.

"Sew on all the badges for extracurricular clubs". How on earth is that such even worth listing in your list of parallel chores that are equal to the hours and effort of full time work (yeah, right)

You're friend A aren't you, OP?

Love how the meals you cook are "amazing" and the playdates you organise are "fun".

Tell us more about "friend B"s shite meals and miserable playdates.

Because she has plenty of time and money. She has no boss. She has a large, immaculate home. She can have coffee in bed after the school run. She can manage her chores and errands and school admin without feeling like she's drowning. She probably has plenty of energy left over for her kids. She doesnt have to worry about childcare issues. Maybe she feels less torn and less guilty. Maybe she's delighted to be out of the rat race. She probably has time for hobbies. God, so many reasons!

Totally agree. I'm more like friend B but wouldn't say anything.

I'm on ML now and went off at 37wk pregnant with one older child in school. Took her out of wraparound care. We have a big house. In that time, heavily pregnant, I deep cleaned our house (although it's usually pretty clean) cooked fab meals daily to give my DH (who usually does the cooking) a break, set up and did numerous activities with my DC and also went into her school to do things I wouldn't usually get the chance to, like manning a stall at an afternoon fete.

It was still an incredibly easy month and I still had hours to myself to float around in the swimming pool / read novels / nap every day. Bit different now I have a small baby! I think the issue is that work expands to take the time available and I can well imagine that if this was all I had to do every day I'd start to feel quite busy with it.

It’s a stupid comparison they have different lives with different priorities. A has the luxury of having endless time to keep house and cook wonderful meals, I would say B still does more overall, even if her house keeping and cooking isn’t quite to the same standard as As.

so long as they’re both happy with their lot then that’s all that matters. Id only be concerned or care at all tbh if say A was trapped and not allowed to work by a controlling husband, or B was struggling financially and desperately unhappy working full time but unable to reduce her hours. If they’re both happy why give it any thought.

I don't understand why folk fill their lives with chores and childcare. But it obviously suits some folk. So I suppose each to their own. To me B has by far the most interesting varied and fulfilling life.

Is she a small child? Where is the expertise, leadership, use of professional qualifications? That sounds like retirement or young childhood and missing most of the joys of adult life!

Why does friend B not have to do drop off/pick up? Surely you have to do that if you use wraparound care too, they don't magic themselves to breakfast club! It just happens at a different time.
What is so much better about A's meals?

Sounds like they each do a very good job at their respective positions. They don't need to pit themselves against one another.

I fall into the B camp - both work ft, rough and ready round the house, everything done between me and dh. I have no experience of what it would be like to be in As camp so I'm in no position to judge it because I don't know. Same as A doesn't know what it's like to be B.

I think I would have a bit of a problem with friend B's attitude. People all make the best choices they can given their own circumstances. That's it really - decide your own shit and respect the rights of others to do the same.

I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard.

When I was at home my house was not immaculate & I didn’t cook lavish meals. Does that make me a bad parent?!

She isn't talking about standards, though. She's talking about feeding her family, and keeping a house clean and keeping the children cared for. They are both doing that. They are just doing it differently. The way A does it means she can fill a whole day with it, whereas the way B does it means she can work too.

I find the assumption from some SAHMs that all working mothers are jealous to be very tedious.

I am not at all jealous. I have a great DH who absolutely does half the housework and half the parenting so that helps. But for me, being a SAHM is the last thing I'd want. I'm not critical of those who do choose it, I have no issue with it, horses for courses etc. But I am definitely not jealous.

I’m a single parent working FT and manage to ‘do it all’.

When I was WFH during covid I was able to do all of my chores etc in the time in would have usually taken me to commute.

If I was a SAHP then I’d have to get some hobbies to fill my day.
It doesn’t take all day, every day to clean a house.

I think friend B was a bit rude to say it though.

Friend A is probably well aware how lucky she is to not have to work and it sounds like friend B is a bit jealous.

All depends, does friend A moan all the time about how she's soooo busy and frazzled?

Yes I think friend B is right, although she is expressing it not very well. Nothing grates more on a working parent than someone who doesn’t work complaining about how busy they are, how stressful life is or how they can’t cope with the school admin. Secretly most of us are thinking, you should try doing it and working an 8/9 hour day!

It’s all personal choice but I also think that when non- working parents with school age kids say they are busy what they often mean is that they have filled their time with stuff they choose to do, like hobbies, over cleaning, cooking elaborate dinners, looking after pets they’ve chosen to have, volunteering, social stuff whereas working parents know that if they don’t turn up there’s no money in the bank- a totally different type of pressure.

And in my own experience at least 80% of the parents that get properly involved with school are also the ones who work.