'I do all these things AND work FT'

[Bumpitybumper]

I see this on Mumsnet a lot but have just experienced it in real life. I have two friends (A&B). Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids and Friend B works FT in quite a stressful job. Friend B was just lamenting that they don't understand how Friend A fills her time as she manages to work FT AND do everything Friend A does.

The thing is, Friend B has a much smaller (yet lovely) house that is pretty chaotic in fun energetic way. It is never the tidiest or cleanest but it's not disgusting either. Friend A on the other hand has a much bigger house that is pretty immaculate most of the time. Friend A does all the school runs and volunteers at school. Friend B needs wraparound care in order to get to work so drops her kids of at 8 and collects around 17:30. Friend A cooks amazing meals for her family, has her children's friends round for fun playdates and activities and is generally incredibly on top of everything. Friend B is understandably more stretched and isn't in the position to cook lavish meals every day of the week or have friends round when she's at work. Friend B's husband does a lot (of course absolutely fair and right) so she doesn't have to attend every parents evening, sew all the badges for extracurricular clubs or assist with all the homework etc. Friend A does pretty much all of that as husband works such long hours.

I actually think both are amazing and very productive people that channel their energy, time and talent in different channels. I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard. Before people suggest I'm Friend A, I have my own business so don't really fit in either camp but used to be a SAHM so I guess can see Friend A's efforts more.

AIBU to think that Friend B is a bit deluded?

Again, allll the nasty judgments and assumptions to women A. Always to the sahm. Leave her alone. Why are you obsessed with other women working? There is more to life than work ffs.

Maybe she’s ok with that. Maybe for her, life has been hard and that’s enough. For some people, all they want is a happy family and children to love. People want different things to think about on their deathbed.

@Lelophants those kind of comments are just inflammatory and best ignored, along with the 'strangers raising your children' bullshit directed at working mums (but strangely not dads!)

I literally wrote my response to someone that did argue that housekeeping and cooking had no intrinsic value beyond the basics...

The point isn't that it has 'nothing' to do with being a parent. I have cited many examples of how A spends considerably more time looking after children than B and does other additional stuff for them. Much of what A does is obviously housekeeping though and not related directly to the children, other than the fact that they would undoubtedly create extra chores as children always do. Whether it's related to being a parent or not, it's irrelevant to my argument as I'm simply saying B doesn't do all that A does and work FT. I'm not saying whether 'all' that A does is related to having kids and I'm not saying A is doing the most valuable work in the world. It is posters like you that are desperate to extrapolate that I must believe A is a better mother because she does these additional things. I haven't said or implied this.

I didn't know A before kids but I doubt her housekeeping standards would have bothered me then as they don't bother me now. It's an observation that she is great at housekeeping, in the same way I observe lots of positive things about all my friends. Not all observations have to be do complete with parenthood to be valid or worthy of discussion

But Friend A does these jobs to a ‘bigger and better’ degree.

But is it qualitatively 'better' for anyone other than A? Do the kids care that the meals are 'lavish' rather than quicker ones that are also healthy and tasty?

I totally agree. I feel like I’ve been equally honest in my own posts - and I don’t really understand why other posters can’t be honest and why they’re so defensive. My home is not as clean and tidy as it would be if I was WAHM that is just a fact. I don’t spend as much time with my kids or my elderly parents as I would if I was not working that is also a fact. I was very bored when I was stuck at home (in my case due to AI illness) when the kids were small, that is also a fact. All life choices involve balance and compromise.

Maybe it is. Can’t people accept that obviously she’s going to have more time to make amazing meals? She might not, but she might. If she does - good for her. Wohm constantly trying to prove they are better in every way. No. They’re just different.

No, 'B' doesn't do precisely the exact same tasks as 'A' for exactly the same precise amount of time. Has B ever actually said this in real life? It's hard to imagine anyone, anywhere, ever would say that their day is a carbon copy of someone else's!

Seriously weird

I can’t understand how anyone would rather be at work (financial considerations aside). That’s not me judging you at all, I’m just saying that we are all different, It’s all so personal and dependent on many factors. I used to hate being judged as a bit useless for being a SAHM - it was one of the happiest times in my life. I know many fabulous mums in both camps. I was a SAHM until my children were at school, was P/T for a bit and now work full time. There is no way that I get as much done around the house now (or I’d never have any down time with the family or sleep!) and I miss having more time for life admin. I agree with all the PP who say let’s support each other’s choices!

@Lelophants I haven't seen any WOHM trying to prove that they're better! All they've said is that they raise happy well adjusted children into happy successful adults too. And that they combine that with working.
My grown up kids are amazing. As they no doubt would be if dh/ I hasn't worked!

Totally agree with you.

Maybe it is. Can’t people accept that obviously she’s going to have more time to make amazing meals?

To be honest, I'm not sure time is the most crucial component of making great family meals. If you're a good cook and well organised in your shopping and prep, that's far more important. Lots of delicious meals can be got to the table quickly if people have the skills.

I don't understand why the OP brought the issue of parenting into it at all, as this is clearly just about a set of tasks done to differing standards.

TBF to the OP, in the original post, I don’t think she brought parenting per se into her question and it was more about a set of day to day tasks. The OP was more around why did Friend B feel the need to criticise Friend A by asking what does Friend A do all day with the added stealth boast of ‘I do everything she does and work outside the home.’

Parenting got brought into the discussion into subsequent posts. IMO DC can benefit from a WAHM, but in some ways, not others and not always. DC can benefit from a WOHM, but in some ways, not others and not always.

It really is quite personal to the household and the parents. A good enough mother is likely to be good enough, as you say, whether you worked outside the home or worked exclusively in the home. It doesn’t have to be a competition.

I went from being friend A to friend B due to outside circumstances. Ill be honest, although knackered a lot of the time I was more fulfilled working.
When I was a SAHM I think I put my own happiness on the back burner.

No-one has ever said that WOHM have less well-adjusted children though they just said they had less time for cleaning out cupboards and making pumpkin pie.

I was very bored when I was stuck at home (in my case due to AI illness) when the kids were small, that is also a fact.

I can still remember endless rounds of laundry when the DC were little and not being able to go to the loo on my own and what an incredible relief it was to go into work and be able to have adult conversations and have a cup of tea that didn’t go cold. Being at home all day full time with small children is hard work.

More than one person on this thread has said that working mums don't raise their children though. Clearly that isn't meant in a positive way and it is only ever aimed at working mums.

I put ‘bigger and better’ in inverted commas.

Well B blatantly doesn't do all the same things as A

Good cook
well organised
shopping
prep

• all these are time consuming

I must have missed those, but equally a poster has just that WAHM are lazy and effectively sponging. I can’t help feeling that if posters were more comfortable with their own choices they wouldn’t be attacking other people’s.

all these are time consuming

Not really. Or not much time. Being organised often comes from being time poor. Being a good cook is definitely not purely about time.

God these threads get as nasty as the BF vs FF ones. Obviously B doesn't do "all that and work FT" how could she? For starters she obviously doesn't do full time childcare. But I'm sure she does all that's necessary and work FT. I really don't understand why women put each other down so much. I've been SAHM for the first 3 years until we could get the free childcare hours BC we have twins and their nursery fees were more than my pay. I now work FT. I genuinely think being at home full time was (for me!) much harder. BUT obviously I had more time to get chores done at home and generally to a better standard. I probably had less time to myself though because no commute or lunch hour. When you're at home even if the baby is taking a nap.you feel you need to be making use of the time.

They don't have to be. Not all healthy meals require tons of prep or are time consuming to make.

Shopping can also be delivered at home.

I imagine those who work FT are simply more likely to have their shopping delivered, batch cook and/or cook things that are less time consuming such as involving minimal prep.

For starters she obviously doesn't do full time childcare.

Neither does A, kids are school aged.