'I do all these things AND work FT'

[Bumpitybumper]

I see this on Mumsnet a lot but have just experienced it in real life. I have two friends (A&B). Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids and Friend B works FT in quite a stressful job. Friend B was just lamenting that they don't understand how Friend A fills her time as she manages to work FT AND do everything Friend A does.

The thing is, Friend B has a much smaller (yet lovely) house that is pretty chaotic in fun energetic way. It is never the tidiest or cleanest but it's not disgusting either. Friend A on the other hand has a much bigger house that is pretty immaculate most of the time. Friend A does all the school runs and volunteers at school. Friend B needs wraparound care in order to get to work so drops her kids of at 8 and collects around 17:30. Friend A cooks amazing meals for her family, has her children's friends round for fun playdates and activities and is generally incredibly on top of everything. Friend B is understandably more stretched and isn't in the position to cook lavish meals every day of the week or have friends round when she's at work. Friend B's husband does a lot (of course absolutely fair and right) so she doesn't have to attend every parents evening, sew all the badges for extracurricular clubs or assist with all the homework etc. Friend A does pretty much all of that as husband works such long hours.

I actually think both are amazing and very productive people that channel their energy, time and talent in different channels. I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard. Before people suggest I'm Friend A, I have my own business so don't really fit in either camp but used to be a SAHM so I guess can see Friend A's efforts more.

AIBU to think that Friend B is a bit deluded?

Friend B is jealous and unhappy and trying to put her insecurity onto friend A to make herself feel better.

I used to be a SAHM and was NEVER bored. Now I go to an office three days a week, where I am bored out of my skull. If I could afford it, I would quit my job tomorrow.

I think sometimes there’s the assumption that working mums don’t do all the things SAHMs do. We also do drop offs and pick ups, but to breakfast club 30 mins earlier rather than school start. We also cook, clean, take to clubs, do life admin, laundry, ironing, homework etc. maybe the bathrooms get cleaned once a week rather that daily, maybe we don’t iron the bedding. Maybe we batch cook. It is hard to think what our SAHM friends are doing to be so busy. It can’t be the equivalent of a FT working week.
I certainly have those thoughts but would never say it to my SAHM friends. What would be the purpose of doing so?

Yes Friend B, you are 'doing it all.' Just ALL of it. The hours between 8 and 5.30 don't really matter. Nobody notices the actual days, especially not children - you can just 'do it all' 5.30 to 8. Who needs 'daytime' anyway. You are 'doing it all' whether you're there or not. Its a miracle actually. Have a medal.

@dumpkin Of course while they're with childcare, you're not raising your kids. How can you be when you're not even physically there with them?? :S

During the times you're home with them you are raising them but whoever you've chosen to look after them while you're at work will be raising them during the majority of their daily lives and forming them for you during that time - that's what you're paying them for and why childcare is so expensive.

Yes you're right, I wouldn't expect I'd get back to the exact same job I was in (post kids I might not even want that same job anyway) but that's my point - it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make because I want to prioritise bringing up my own children during their childhood. As well as for my own wellbeing, I dont want their memories to be of me constantly ragged and hectic from trying to balance a full time job alongside life admin and looking after them in the evenings/weekends which are my memories from my own mother who worked full time after maternity leave.

My mother loved us and genuinely tried her best but as a mother you cannot do it all, even with an involved husband splitting everything, as there's simply not enough time in the day when you've already chosen for a full time job to take up the vast majority of the day. The children just become yet another thing to juggle around a full time job instead of the children being the main priority time wise and children really feel this, even though they can't articulate it when they're young. Comparing my childhood with those whose mother was a stay at home mother is very different and is what I would want for myself and my children.

This is a lot. Are you ok? I’m not entirely sure that you’re justifying it to us ( we didn’t need you to) or to yourself?

There is so much to unpick here, like so many people actual idolise their career? Some people just have jobs and they need them to survive.

You’re obviously in a very privileged position here but you come across as basically any working parent just hates their kids. Which, you know, is absolute bullshit.

The only thing that does sometimes bother me, is that SAHM’s are not contributing to the economy with employment tax or pension contributions. It can feel a bit depressing to be working so hard and see them heading off to the gym, knowing that my contributions will ultimately be topping them up somewhere.

Do you understand fathers who are hyper fixated on paying strangers to raise their children? @MightyMinestrone

Yes Friend B, you are 'doing it all.' Just ALL of it. The hours between 8 and 5.30 don't really matter.

School aged children. So school hours 'matter' when mother is sitting at home, but not when she's at work? Miracle actually.

Nursery care for my DS when I'm at work but they don't raise him. There's a difference.

They don't provide financially for him
They don't think about his future
They don't take him to get his jabs or any other appointments
They don't comfort him in the night when he's ill
They won't see him again once he leaves nursery

They certainly don't raise him.

I think my analogies have been unhelpful so I'll be more direct.

B simply does not do what A does and a lot of what A does is driven by her own high standards.

A's house is very clean and tidy, imagine a show home with some kids stuff and that is pretty much her house. B's house just simply isn't that clean or tidy. Nothing crazy, but normal household mess and things like the oven could do with a good clean and the shower screen could do with a bit of a scrub. Objectively the houses aren't cleaned to the same standard. The cars are the same as is the garden. Meals are more elaborate at A's house whereas B does a mix of basic cooking from scratch and some convenience foods. A sits with their child to listen to them read whilst B listens to their child whilst dashing around doing other stuff. I know this sounds like I'm putting B down, but honestly I find myself doing many of the same things because there simply aren't enough hours in the day.

A has the children until 8:30 and collects them again at 3. B drops off the children earlier and collects them much later. This isn't a standards thing but just a fact that B isn't looking after her children for the same amount of time. A probably has the children for around 4 hours a day more during a school day and obviously a lot more than that in the school holidays when B has to rely on clubs. Again, B simply isn't doing what A does.

B combined with her husband manage to get most things done but I think the husband is a red herring. B was saying that SHE did everything that A did, not that B and her husband achieved this together. A's husband is away a lot and works very long hours so she can't rely on him to contribute in the same way.

What an odd comment. Of course daytime matters.

Also, you're not doing it all if you work full time. You're actually paying someone else to do it for you (i.e. the part of raising your kids) for the times you're at work. Literally doing it all would be working at a job WHILE looking after kids which would be impossible for anyone to do properly. Some people were forced into in this situation during Covid when childcare was shut down while they still had to work from home and I'm sure they'll vouch that it's certainly different scenario from having childcare.

Yes there is nothing to do in the day. We can't think of anything at all. Really trying hard but ... duh. Also, it's common knowledge that we all have exactly the same amount of children and the same houses and the same commitments and support. Everyone needs to directly compare themselves with everyone else because this is so useful. WHO is watching TV and for how long, that's what I want to know. Who spends the most time on MN? At the expense of the tax payer, no less. We need surveillance on such matters.

MightyMinestrone

That poster was being sarcastic and implying that working mothers do not see their children during daytime.
Mine are at school until 4.30 and on most days, go straight out for their activitiesm getting home 6.30-7.30. Would not make one bit of difference if I was a SAHM, I would not see any more of them.

Seriously? Ok forget that she’s got a child and has god knows what else going on. If a child free woman decided to go to the gym in the day would you resent her?

Of course while they're with childcare, you're not raising your kids. How can you be when you're not even physically there with them?? :S

I don’t understand what bit you are confused about? Paying for childcare isn’t paying for someone else to raise your dc?

My mum didn’t work & we had nannies, au pairs etc I would never consider that she didn’t raise me. Would you?

As well as for my own wellbeing, I dont want their memories to be of me constantly ragged and hectic from trying to balance a full time job alongside life admin and looking after them in the evenings/weekends which are my memories from my own mother who worked full time after maternity leave.

My husband works ft & I wouldn’t say the above is a reflection of our lives. What are your memories of your father?

Let's face it, it is more likely to be amateurish if it is cobbled together. Generally the more time and effort you put into something then the outcome will be improved and at least distinguishable from a more rushed effort. There are always exceptions of course, but this is a general truism that most people accept.

A carefully hand painted model trainset is going to look different that one I quickly bought from Amazon. They may well function similarly but they are fundamentally and objectively different things. How much value you place on the hand painted version will be subjective and personal. What I couldn't say though is 'I have made the same train set using less time and effort'. It just wouldn't be objectively true.

@MightyMinestrone i bet your farts smell like roses and unicorns too

@MightyMinestrone do you class school as raising your dc?

Surely historically it was unusual for mothers to not work &/or have free time to spend with their dc?
My grandmother didn’t work but she had 7 dc, no washing machine, dishwasher, tumble drier, etc & spent a lot more of her day doing chores.

I can just imagine it...
"I get to live in a lovely clean house, eat home cooked meals, never have to worry about childcare, domestics or life adimin. Everyone is so jealous of me with my stay at home wife!"
"You must be joking mate. I don't worry about any of that either, but mine brings in as much as I do and I'll be retired by 50."

Friend B sounds like a shit friend to Friend A.

When I was a SAHM, DH took home £4k a month more than he does now. I am pretty sure his contributions were enough for both of us.

Another friend c option.

No, we don’t look after our kids during summer. We leave them to their own devices. The 2 year old is a dab hand at chopping up the veggies for dinner while the 4 year old operates the hob 🙄🙄

Yeah friend B is being a dick. I am very aware of how much more my SAHM friend can put into her kids and home than me.

A carefully hand painted model trainset is going to look different that one I quickly bought from Amazon. They may well function similarly but they are fundamentally and objectively different things.

But surely we are talking about function? The hand painted one might be more expensive & look nicer because hand painted but that doesn’t mean it functions any better?

The elaborate cooked meal isn’t necessarily better than something thrown together quickly nutritionally wise?