'I do all these things AND work FT'

[Bumpitybumper]

I see this on Mumsnet a lot but have just experienced it in real life. I have two friends (A&B). Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids and Friend B works FT in quite a stressful job. Friend B was just lamenting that they don't understand how Friend A fills her time as she manages to work FT AND do everything Friend A does.

The thing is, Friend B has a much smaller (yet lovely) house that is pretty chaotic in fun energetic way. It is never the tidiest or cleanest but it's not disgusting either. Friend A on the other hand has a much bigger house that is pretty immaculate most of the time. Friend A does all the school runs and volunteers at school. Friend B needs wraparound care in order to get to work so drops her kids of at 8 and collects around 17:30. Friend A cooks amazing meals for her family, has her children's friends round for fun playdates and activities and is generally incredibly on top of everything. Friend B is understandably more stretched and isn't in the position to cook lavish meals every day of the week or have friends round when she's at work. Friend B's husband does a lot (of course absolutely fair and right) so she doesn't have to attend every parents evening, sew all the badges for extracurricular clubs or assist with all the homework etc. Friend A does pretty much all of that as husband works such long hours.

I actually think both are amazing and very productive people that channel their energy, time and talent in different channels. I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard. Before people suggest I'm Friend A, I have my own business so don't really fit in either camp but used to be a SAHM so I guess can see Friend A's efforts more.

AIBU to think that Friend B is a bit deluded?

Can’t we just say good for Parent A able to have more time and enjoy her life if that’s how she likes it? For all we know she constantly feels insecure and depressed thinking she has to do absolutely everything because women like Parent B go around acting as if she is an inferior type of woman for not getting the perfect corporate job.

It all comes back to sexism.

It's the same with language when describing mothers working vs fathers working such as fathers working = providers, work hard etc and when some SAHM's talk about their husbands 'providing', there isn't much talk about the rat race or if they like/dislike their job or that they probably will regret working so much on their death bed yet it seems to apply to working mothers. Funny that.

There's often no talk about providing, working hard (aka long hours but said in a more positive way) etc when it comes to working mothers. They just get told that they don't raise their children or that they don't even enjoy being with them.

Of course, working mothers never get judged though. Please.

In all honestly I’ve never known a sahm to be nasty about working mums. Theyre more admiring of them if anything and have their own reasons for doing what they do (often never had the best career, low self esteem etc). Yet it’s the working mums who like to take up time being incredibly nasty about them.

Threads like these are really bad for my mental health. No, I’m clearly not as strong as all these working mums, I’m a failure. Oh well. Only another year until I can return to work and be seen as a human on mumsnet.

Better get back to doing nothing! Let’s not talk about the fact I’m on constant burnout and haven’t watched a decent bit of tv in years. I’m a failure.

In my eyes both Parent A and B are lucky!
I'm parent c. Both my children go to my school so they go and come home with me. I spend all holidays with them.
I have not been alone in years!!!

OK, but now your logic makes even less sense.

X spends time making train sets (or being on the PTA etc).
Y does not, because she works.

How can you say "X does things to a higher standard than Y"?

Or, more to the point:

X does all the drop offs and pickups and sewing.
Y and her husband share these tasks (but they still get done).

How can that mean "X has higher standards than Y"?

I've honestly never understood mothers who are so hyper fixated on paying strangers to bring up their children for them so they can work full time (unless they need to work/can't look after their kids for dire financial or health reasons). These are precious childhood years you'll NEVER get back.

Paying for childcare doesn’t mean you aren’t raising your dc.

It's just not worth it and priorities are all wrong. I would want to return to work instead when they're teens/adults.

Certainly people I know have worked hard for their jobs & want to keep a toe in.
I went back to work very p/t specifically so I could stay p/t perhaps until my dc are in uni (who knows).
Not everyone can guarantee they can walk back into the job they used to do 20 years prior

@MightyMinestrone

What if your husband wanted to switch places with you tomorrow and enjoy every moment with the kids. Would you be prepared to go back to work and facilitate him doing all that so he gets the same quality time?

I'm guessing you're going to say he wouldnt want to, but what if he did? would you enable him to have the same opportunity?

I think it’s all pretty irrelevant, that’s B’s feelings, and her feelings are valid, it’s her way of just saying she feels stretched.
A lot of what A is doing is through choice, it’s not essential to cook lavish meals, really that’s a luxury to have the time to do that and just demonstrates how much time she’s got on her hands.
I think what B probably just means is that sometimes SAHM’s seem to forget that FT working mums do most of that stuff as well as working full time, as though they’re just part time mums or not as good.
They both sound like amazing mums doing the best for their families with the situations they are in.
I’ve been a SAHM, worked part time, worked full time, been self employed…all are hard in different ways. Personally I hated being a SAHM because I was bored and I became depressed because my work is part of who I am, without it I lost some of my feelings of my self worth. I also think it’s important for kids to see their parents having ambition, eg recently I decided I wanted to get promoted and my kids followed my progress, they were really routing for me, they saw me setting myself targets and areas to work on, preparing my application etc. They’ve seen my hard work pay off and now they’re seeing the rewards of that hard work. Personally I think that’s more important than volunteering at school and having an immaculate house, but each to their own.

@SouthLondonMum22 yes the same traits that are seen as positive in fathers are often negative in mothers.

@ElderMillenials What on earth do you mean about mothers "daring to exist as a human being in their own right" because they work full time??

Mothers who look after their children full time are just as much human beings who exist in their own right. No one's value or existence, man or woman, has anything to do with whether they currently work full time outside the home or not. What a ridiculous comment.

Really? The very post you responded to isn't exactly pleasant towards working mothers, is it?

I've honestly never understood mothers who are so hyper fixated on paying strangers to bring up their children for them so they can work full time

Shock, horror, I would love my children more than anything and I actually WANT to spend precious time with my own kids and would happily sacrifice my job/career during their childhood to spend irreplaceable time with them and bring them up, seeing as I'm their parent.

Just two examples.

Lol you’re 100% “friend A” spend more of your free time binging shit tv e.g., real housewives and stop overthinking, that’s what I would be doing if I was you.

Alternatively if that’s not up your street I could pick out some of my meetings you could cover and I will watch the housewives?

If I saw someone with an immaculate model railway collection that they had made and painted themselves, I would acknowledge that it would have taken a lot of work to complete. I may not want one myself or compare it to paid work, but it is still something they have done and achieved. If I was to cobble together a small, more amateurish trainset that served the purposes I needed then of course I could argue that I have made a model train set in a fraction of the time and a better one wouldn't benefit me or wider society, but that wouldn't change the fact that the enthusiast's train set was made to a better standard.

But why would the one cobbled together quickly mean it’s amateurish? One might look prettier but does it actually function any better? Just because something takes longer doesn’t mean it performs to a better standard.

I've honestly never understood mothers who are so hyper fixated on paying strangers to bring up their children for them so they can work full time

Wow that’s a classic of the genre. That must be a wind-up, surely?

Yet no one is nasty about working mothers. It's always poor SAHM's that get nasty comments.

Apparently.

Also these threads & the whole I wouldn’t have dc if I didn’t want to raise them ignore the fact that there are plenty of women who don’t work but outsource plenty.

Who cares honestly.

I work full time, do all my own cleaning/housework, have no family help AND I'm a completely lone parent, do I get a medal?

Just crack on and stop moaning.

I'd rather be proud of myself for working like a normal human being. Some people don't care about working or the buzz when you get paid or whatever but that's not me.

Had a period of unemployment for visa reasons and my self esteem went through the floor.

I've honestly never understood mothers who are so hyper fixated on paying strangers to bring up their children for them so they can work full time

Yeah, those awful women who put paying bills like increasing mortgage payments and building up penison pots in light of diminishing state pensions ahead of staying at home with their kids all day. They're clearly just making selfish choices having to go out and earn money for the family 🙄

There is nothing 'unfeminist' about choosing to stay at home. It is that sort of lazy thinking that makes a lot of women not want to identify with feminism. It seems very old fashioned and reactionary to me, you are only a feminist if you work ungodly hours for some corporation.

They’re different people with different lives. It’s not a competition.

I voted YANBU as NO B is not doing what A is doing as B is using wrap-around childcare she is paying someone to do with A is doing.

However, Nor is A doing better because of how she is living.

When I was a SAHM it used to piddle me off when I got comments like "What do you do all day" I wonder that about some of the people I work with and they get paid for it.. Also as a SAHM I more than once had a friend semi sickly kid. I was on the calling list to be taken home if sick for 5 children. I had 2 after school 2 days a week for a year whilst their mum studied to get her own business set up (and got very successful at it later on) I often had children when friends were stuck in the holidays for the odd day here and there. So no in my experience a full-time working mother does not do " the same" as a SAHM mum does. They are different.

Cleaning and household stuff remain the same for all people who have a home children and pets.

It's lifestyle choices and people are entitled to do as they wish. Providing they can afford it.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

It’s so odd, I’ve never in 45 years heard a comment ‘dripping with jealousy’ from a friend. How bizarre it’s routine for you.

Surely people don’t really think like this?

Do I do all that SAHM does and work? Well, just as an example, I squeeze my grocery shopping in where I can, usually lunch hour when WFH or just before picking up kids. Hers fills an entire afternoon for her - I know, as she said she can't make x event, as this is the afteroon she does her groceries. We both get the same result, there is food in the fridge. Is it the same or is her of better quality and means she loves her children more, I honestly don't know.