'I do all these things AND work FT'

[Bumpitybumper]

I see this on Mumsnet a lot but have just experienced it in real life. I have two friends (A&B). Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids and Friend B works FT in quite a stressful job. Friend B was just lamenting that they don't understand how Friend A fills her time as she manages to work FT AND do everything Friend A does.

The thing is, Friend B has a much smaller (yet lovely) house that is pretty chaotic in fun energetic way. It is never the tidiest or cleanest but it's not disgusting either. Friend A on the other hand has a much bigger house that is pretty immaculate most of the time. Friend A does all the school runs and volunteers at school. Friend B needs wraparound care in order to get to work so drops her kids of at 8 and collects around 17:30. Friend A cooks amazing meals for her family, has her children's friends round for fun playdates and activities and is generally incredibly on top of everything. Friend B is understandably more stretched and isn't in the position to cook lavish meals every day of the week or have friends round when she's at work. Friend B's husband does a lot (of course absolutely fair and right) so she doesn't have to attend every parents evening, sew all the badges for extracurricular clubs or assist with all the homework etc. Friend A does pretty much all of that as husband works such long hours.

I actually think both are amazing and very productive people that channel their energy, time and talent in different channels. I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard. Before people suggest I'm Friend A, I have my own business so don't really fit in either camp but used to be a SAHM so I guess can see Friend A's efforts more.

AIBU to think that Friend B is a bit deluded?

You can work full-time and still not use childcare. My partner and I will be in that position as of next week. (And no, my kids won’t be at granny’s either)

So apparently, most of our children "raised" by school staff as they spend good part of the day in school.

No judgement to anyone's choice, but it's important for me to be a role model for my children, and that's not being a sahp... (I was one for almost 10 years)

A has the children until 8:30 and collects them again at 3. B drops off the children earlier and collects them much later. This isn't a standards thing but just a fact that B isn't looking after her children for the same amount of time.

I finish work early enough to do pick ups but most days my dcs do an after school club eg today one had coding & one had strings. Do people actually judge this?!

Well of course B is not doing the same as A, she simply physically doesn’t have the time. The parental responsibilities are the same though. Maybe that’s what B was getting at.

Why is there so much hatred towards working mothers in this thread? Being vilified for bringing in an income and supporting their families

I agree with the PP who said that laundry, lavish meals and hoovering are not achievements, no matter how immaculate they are.
Does A feel she needs acknowledgment of how good a SAHM job she's doing? B is probably doing more and would likely eye-roll so hard at the suggestion that A's 'achievements'/ hand-painted train set needs acknowledgment.
I'm like B and ignore/ gloss over any conversations like this in real life as I'm not interested in discussing this with anyone who I perceive as having an easier life than me. I'm not rude, just don't engage, nod along.

Pointing out difference is not the same as judging. I doubt anyone gives much thought as to whether your kids are at home, at extracurricular clubs or in wraparound care. My point is that A gets her kids at 3 and B gets her children much later and therefore isn't doing the same as A. That's all!

Agree with you OP. I am now running my own business but was both Friend A and Friend B at different points in time. When I was working full time, we have to put our DD to childcare from 8-6 and didn't get as much time to play with her or teach her things. But when I was Friend A, I planned all of my DD's learning and activites and was much more involved with her. I understand that you can still look after your child even when you work full time but don't underestimate the things that SAHMs do, they don't just stay at home and do nothing.

@Lelophants obviously working mums also have children at home and stuff going on.
I do probably resent them a little as most working mums don’t have time for such luxury. Probably don’t need the gym as we’re always on the move anyway.
As a younger, child free woman, I used to go to the gym as well as work. That time is now taken up with mum duties.
mum also contributing to the economy. It would collapse if all women packed in work.

@MightyMinestrone

my husband and I both work, me 34 hours (practically full time) and him between 40-50. We manage the childcare, drop offs and pickups between us except 1 day of after school club which my child enjoys attending. We have no family help.

why do you assume that someone else is raising working parent’s children? Why do you hate working mothers?

We all do it differently. But I believe that "every mother is a working mother". Being a mother is work work work in an office or at home. We are ALL working mothers. We all do it, all day. With perhaps a tiny exception of some billionaires. Who will hopefully not be reading this. 😬😁 We are united by motherhood, and we cannot, should not, be divided.

Well, if a teacher is the one raising kids when they are at school, can I class myself as a mum of 300 (ish) kids?

@Twinboyz I think Orwell phrased it 'we are all equal but some are more equal than others?'

@Bumpitybumper I suppose I find it weird that’s it’s so binary. In my dc’s school getting places in some of the clubs is like trying to get Glastonbury’s tickets! And there’s the demand from working & non working parents. It would be unusual for a dc to never do any clubs.

@Terraria but role model what? I don't understand when people say this in this context. All that children care about is being loved and looked after well by their parents. When i grew up and left home, working to earn a living is common sense and a necessity, I didn't need both my mother and father working to show me that.

Your children will grow into adults and will make their own choices about how they want to raise their own kids. I had a loving working mother and I know that I would want to be a SAHM.

Where did I say anything about ‘shame’ or ‘daring to exist’ or indeed ‘failing dc’ or ‘living in squalor’? That’s just invention and histrionics.

Your point wasn’t actually about dads at all, or only in the final para. And you haven’t engaged with my point at all.

Dads is somewhat of a red herring - but as it goes I’d said some men don’t particularly regret lack of time spent with their kids and some regret it enormously. Depends on the person and the circumstance.

This one always gets wheeled out.

Mothers give birth. Fathers are very important (I have a fabulous one) - but mothers are basically better at looking after children than men are, because they are hard wired to do so.

The whole 'equal parenting' thing has only really come into being since women had to work because a mortgage on a decent house is basically impossible on one salary now. How many mothers genuinely want to work ft?

Obviously there are some crap mothers around, but on balance, women are better at it than men are. My dad is, as I said, fabulous - but he wouldn't have been fabulous if he'd been a SAHP. He'd have hated it. He played an entirely different (equally important, but different) role in my life, as he still does now.

I could either have worked (and did, pre-children - had a super-duper high-flying professional job) or could have been a SAHM because I had a private income. I chose to be a SAHM, because I wanted to, and because it was better for the children.

Someone upthread said they would be bored as a SAHM. I was never bored. I did very little housework (because that really is boring) and did basic cooking but am really a crap cook (for me, cooking is also filed under 'boring'). When the DC were little, I took them out and about, talked to them, read to them, played with them, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. When they went to school at 5, I did voluntary work, went riding, walked the dogs, worked on my garden and vegetable garden, saw friends etc. The school days are quite short, and the holidays are very, very long. I also did a fair bit of looking after my friends' children while they were at work in the holidays, and a lot of ferrying children (mine and other people's) around. I was glad to do this - these were small, close-knit prep schools and I was good friends with all the other mothers and knew their children well.

There was no boredom. If I'd kept my job, I am sure there would have been some interesting elements to it, but I would only have coped with the boring bits and working with idiots if I'd absolutely had to do so. And I didn't, so I didn't.

I do all those things and work part time. If your kids are at school and you are a SAHM, then you are spending your time on hobbies and leisure, or you are making work for yourself.

@DaftyInTheMiddle Yes they do, thank you for noticing 😂

@MightyMinestrone

As well as for my own wellbeing, I dont want their memories to be of me constantly ragged and hectic from trying to balance a full time job alongside life admin and looking after them in the evenings/weekends which are my memories from my own mother who worked full time after maternity leave.

Thats nice for you. But what about working single parents like me? Should I just go on benefits for my “wellbeing”? Or the many families where both couples need to work? Or, shock horror, the women who are good at what they do and useful in their field? Should they all quit their jobs in order to deprive people who care for their children professionally while they are at work of a job?

You realise, right, that a large majority of jobs in teaching and healthcare are held by working women? Should they all just down tools as well so they can make nice food while their kids are at school?

Not really thought this through have you?

@SisterHyster

Yes, by some posters’ logic you are, definitely

Then I must be hard wired incorrectly because I absolutely don't want to be a SAHM and work FT by choice. DH is also just as capable of looking after DS as I am.

Good grief what a load of nonsense. My kids have all grown up now, in their 30s with partners, homes and happy successful lives of their own. And as a mum who worked, how wonderful that I've raised fabulous happy children and a great career behind me. Win win as far as I can see!

I was raised by a SAHM, with the immaculate house and everything organised and the home cooked meals.......the reality was different to the perceived picture of perfect.

Suffice to say - I'm doing it friend B way.

Same here.

One of the reasons why I'm not a SAHM is because I grew up with one.

@SouthLondonMum22 I would argue that this is a kind of 'false consciousness'.

I'm sure men are very capable of looking after small children. I have known many very capable such men. However, I don't think they have the visceral desire to do so that (the majority of) women have, if they are being honest.