Page 8 | To be genuinely shocked by the apparent illiteracy of Andrea Jenkyns?

sorrynotathome · 2023-11-14T15:10:20+00:00

Have we really reached the point where it is acceptable for a senior MP to publish a serious (presumably) document that is barely legible?! It's not a text or a tweet or a Mumsnet post for goodness' sake. It reads as though she spoke it into her phone and hoped for the best. If this is what passes for communication nowadays, no wonder people struggle to connect and constantly misunderstand each other.

LizzieW1969 · 14/11/2023 20:20

I agree that it’s terrible grammar, surely she could have asked someone to proof read the letter before it was sent in? However, I wouldn’t say that the meaning was difficult to understand.

Original poster

sorrynotathome · 14/11/2023 20:20

For those of you appalled by me not posting a link to the letter, I humbly apologise. My shock was genuine and this thread has reassured me, in that an overwhelming majority have voted IANBU. It’s not about SPAG (we all know no one cares), it’s about being able to communicate clearly and accurately. If politicians can’t do that in a formal letter there is something very wrong.

OP posts:

PollyannaWhittier · 14/11/2023 21:00

AutumnCrow · 14/11/2023 18:39

Why are some posters' fonts going all weird?

Because they are using the tilde symbol (at the top left of the keyboard, next to the 1) instead of the apostrophe for some bizarre reason; and it's presumably part of the formatting code for the site !

TheMarzipanDildo · 14/11/2023 21:09

anotherside · 14/11/2023 19:03

The funniest but is saying they need to stop “Starmer’s socialist cabal”. Starmer couldn’t be more establishment if he tried. Ludicrous as it is, the fact that she even dares to call him socialist shows just how batshit crazy right wing some of the Tory Party has now become.

Yes, hardly Karl Marx is he? He’s straining really, really hard for the centre.

Everanewbie · 14/11/2023 21:13

EvilRingahBitch · 14/11/2023 19:42

As a card-carrying member of the apostrophe police, I'd agree that that's an absolute shocker of a tweet.

But there's a difference between a tweet (are they always going to be called tweets? are they ever going to be known as xxxs?) and a formal letter of resignation, printed on headed notepaper and signed in ink. In the unlikely event that anyone ever writes Dame Andrea's biography, this would be a key document referred to in the record. Ministerial resignation letters are a big and permanent deal, especially the ones which go beyond the bland "honour to serve, more time with family, will continue to support from the back benches" and put the boot in publicly.

Show quote history

Yes fair point. Unfortunately my suspicion is that had the letter had been written by an MP from the other team, OP would write a post on a similar thread criticising the grammar where we’d be told to be kind because she might have dyslexia or another undiagnosed learning difficulty. I hope I’m wrong.

Dweetfidilove · 14/11/2023 21:25

It’s piss poor, if you ask me.

I see similar barely comprehensible ramblings on company emails/ intranet posts.

It always makes me wonder about the calibre of the people on the upper floors.

cardibach · 14/11/2023 21:33

CrashyTime · 14/11/2023 18:38

I think many voted for a house price crash TBH, I saw a guy on that recent documentary about the housing "crisis" say that this is why he voted for Brexit (Remember all the Remain lies about the house price crash that would follow on the next day after a vote to leave, LOL, the housing crash will be caused by higher rates and bond markets, nothing to do with Brexit) Many including myself voted Leave because the 5th biggest (at the time) economy in the world should be able to run its own laws, borders and economy and make trade deals under its own steam, very basic stuff that relates to sovereign nations.

Show quote history

We already could. But anyone still banging the Brexit drum at this point is a lost cause, so I’ll leave you to it.

cardibach · 14/11/2023 21:41

Nicesalad · 14/11/2023 18:57

spelt is the traditional British English spelling.

Show quote history

As is ‘gotten’ Doesn’t mean it’s in general use now.

cardibach · 14/11/2023 21:43

AutumnCrow · 14/11/2023 18:39

Why are some posters' fonts going all weird?

Not some. One. @CrashyTime ’s. Not sure why.

cardibach · 14/11/2023 21:45

pollymere · 14/11/2023 19:00

It reminds me of kids who don't really know how to write letters but are trying to get a 5 for GCSE.

It was terribly written but weirdly contained sibilance and plosive as well as a rhetorical question.

I agree it’s terrible, but almost all writing will contain some sibilants and some plosive sounds… A rhetorical question is not totally inappropriate, but is odd in the context.

Papillon23 · 14/11/2023 21:48

CurlewKate · 14/11/2023 18:23

@RecoveringBorderline "I'm with @cardibach on this one. It is an insult to less privileged students who are very bright and capable"

Being very bright and capable does not mean you have necessarily learned formal grammar, or to be comfortable using it. You might very well be capable of being an excellent MP while also never having learned syntax. Posters on here would automatically rule such people out.

Maybe they could be a great MP.

Luckily, when they become an MP they get a budget to pay for staff. So anyone who can't construct a formal letter can make sure they employ someone who can. Alternatively, they could get a colleague to proof read it.

underneaththeash · 14/11/2023 21:53

CrashyTime · 14/11/2023 18:38

I think many voted for a house price crash TBH, I saw a guy on that recent documentary about the housing "crisis" say that this is why he voted for Brexit (Remember all the Remain lies about the house price crash that would follow on the next day after a vote to leave, LOL, the housing crash will be caused by higher rates and bond markets, nothing to do with Brexit) Many including myself voted Leave because the 5th biggest (at the time) economy in the world should be able to run its own laws, borders and economy and make trade deals under its own steam, very basic stuff that relates to sovereign nations.

Show quote history

Yes! I think people did....Why are you putting things in a weird font? Does it make you more followable?
(incidentally, I'm the person who linked her comment initially, and I stand by the fact that it's shit.)

keiratwiceknightly · 14/11/2023 22:10

My year 11s and I assessed it today.

We awarded it 11-12/24 for content, 7/16 for SPAG. That means it just hovers around a pass grade (4) but has by no means secured it.

Braverman is an even nastier person, but can construct grammatical, well-worded letters.

AutumnCrow · 14/11/2023 22:29

PollyannaWhittier · 14/11/2023 21:00

Because they are using the tilde symbol (at the top left of the keyboard, next to the 1) instead of the apostrophe for some bizarre reason; and it's presumably part of the formatting code for the site !

Show quote history

Thank you. And you're right - it's bizarre that posters commenting on SPAG can't find the apostrophe key.

AutumnCrow · 14/11/2023 22:30

So you have to type tilde to tilde

Coldcaller · 14/11/2023 23:04

keiratwiceknightly · Today 22:10

My year 11s and I assessed it today.

We awarded it 11-12/24 for content, 7/16 for SPAG. That means it just hovers around a pass grade (4) but has by no means secured it.

Braverman is an even nastier person, but can construct grammatical, well-worded letters.

Why are you wasting time getting children to analyse poor letter writing. Leave you political bias out of the classroom please ....

jcyclops · 14/11/2023 23:45

Sir Graham Brady should return the letter and ask her to re-submit it after getting one of her staff to re-write it in English.

Jenkyns fired back at criticism by pointing out that she is illiterate has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), which can affect spelling and grammar, and accused those criticising her of being "sanctimonious".

BitOutOfPractice · 14/11/2023 23:53

The SPAG is bad yes. But what, to me, is worse is the amount of non sequiturs. The whole letter is just nonsense. Stream of consciousness nonsense.

MasterBeth · 15/11/2023 00:19

catsanddogsandrabbits · 14/11/2023 19:11

It annoys me when people say "But it's clear what she meant". What they mean is "I believe I understand".

Often in these situations it transpires that different people understood slightly different things - and some misunderstood completely.
It's already evident that some people have understood her abilities, tone and character to be other than what she seems to have intended by the method she has used.

The point about language is it is a means of communication. So being clear is important. And if it doesn't matter - and next time you find you didn't quite realise that XXXX or YYYY when you signed a rental agreement, a credit card application or bought an insurance policy, then you'll maybe see why.

This is nonsense. Once you understand her unconventional/incorrect punctuation, it's easy to see what she means.

Mostly, her errors are about ending a sentence. She either does it too soon or not soon enough. Sometimes, it's a comma splice. At other times, she uses a full stop when the sentence hasn't ended

She misses a few words out too, but the context is clear. It's ridiculous to use the word illiterate to describe Jenkyns, based on this letter.

CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau · 15/11/2023 00:24

On the plus side, she did say “yes, Boris Johnson is unforgivable”.
On the minus side, yes, get your intern to proof it Ms Jenkyns. A major part of my job used to be proofing my managing partner’s articles and blog posts - impeccable English but it was his second language and he wanted it to be idiomatically perfect as well.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 15/11/2023 00:24

EvilRingahBitch · 14/11/2023 19:42

As a card-carrying member of the apostrophe police, I'd agree that that's an absolute shocker of a tweet.

But there's a difference between a tweet (are they always going to be called tweets? are they ever going to be known as xxxs?) and a formal letter of resignation, printed on headed notepaper and signed in ink. In the unlikely event that anyone ever writes Dame Andrea's biography, this would be a key document referred to in the record. Ministerial resignation letters are a big and permanent deal, especially the ones which go beyond the bland "honour to serve, more time with family, will continue to support from the back benches" and put the boot in publicly.

Show quote history

Technical point: it's not a resignation letter, it's to the 1922 committee. She is not resigning her own post, but calling for the PM to be removed from his.

I agree with the rest, though.

GotNewHair · 15/11/2023 00:32

Well MasterBeth with her inability to identify, form or sustain a sentence or to accurately apply end of sentence punctuation while not functionally illiterate she is well below the GCSE pass standard that her party believes is so important.

ALongHardWinter · 15/11/2023 01:12

DupontsYellowDressingGown · 14/11/2023 15:50

It reminded me of one of those unhinged Nextdoor posts

I thought it was just me who thought this! 😂😂😂

verdantverdure · 15/11/2023 01:33

GotNewHair · 15/11/2023 00:32

Well MasterBeth with her inability to identify, form or sustain a sentence or to accurately apply end of sentence punctuation while not functionally illiterate she is well below the GCSE pass standard that her party believes is so important.

That was my thought.

Wasn't she Minister for Higher Education briefly?

Original poster

sorrynotathome · 15/11/2023 06:12

GotNewHair · 15/11/2023 00:32

Well MasterBeth with her inability to identify, form or sustain a sentence or to accurately apply end of sentence punctuation while not functionally illiterate she is well below the GCSE pass standard that her party believes is so important.

According to @keiratwiceknightly ’s students she would pass, which is equally shocking.

OP posts: