To think society hates children?

[Orangeandgold]

During a crisis people tend to defend children and babies, but on a day to day basis when everything is “normal” I usually find and feel so much hatred towards children.

My DD picked this up quite young too. It is small subtle everyday conversations and actions.

I would have to remind an adult not to barge past a 5 year old when there is enough space on the pavement; or people that feel that they can comment or roll their eyes at you and be malicious because you have a buggy; or general comments in conversations about “all kids are brats/ those children/why would anyone have them.”; animals are so much more loving than children …

… and the comments go on!

If you don’t want children you don’t have to have them, but we were all kids once. AIBU to feel that society in general hates children and to get upset about it every now and then? Or am I just in a pessimistic bubble? Maybe it’s also the city, people have less tolerance? I just feel nobody really looks out for each other the way we would growing up - I would have neighbours on the look out as a child but now it’s different.

Nope, I see the opposite.

I think both posts cover the usual issue.

These children are often lumbered with entitled parents as well who believe you should be entertained by the foolishness.

I love children, but can’t abide poor behaviour.

the demands on parents are ever increasing and I think it is becoming harder and harder to raise children. This is for financial reasons as both parents are expected to work more and more hours taking them away from the family but also the requirements and expectations placed upon parents seems to grow exponentially. Parents are expected to support children's education and general wellbeing in a way that simply wasn't considered when I was a child.

I must admit I was taken aback at the school demands and the educational support need when my DC did fall behind.

The whole You have to parent like you don't work and work like you don't have kids does seem to be an expectation in our society - I don't think house prices and longer commutes help with that but as PP says we aren't only society that has working parents - my DGM both worked full time and DMum worked p/t to be there when we got home having been a latch key kid herself and MIL full time - DH was very much a latch key kid from a very young age. So working mothers aren't new thing even here.

I partly agree with this. My first Mother's Day my husband took me out to a lovely restaurant for brunch. We were treated like 2nd class citizens for having the audacity to take a pram into a restaurant. When he booked my husband told them two and a newborn... did they expect her to sit on a chair?? Also our local restaurant has a special room for families, so basically they can shove us all into the room so the civilised people can eat without children there. For context my children are very well behaved and used to eating out

YABU. Not see this at all.

Never noticed it to be honest, other than being followed around supermarkets by security guards if you go in with pram and a shopping basket.

@SeulementUneFois
The UK is pretty average amongst comparable countries in terms of the % of women working that have children under 6. Plenty of countries like Ireland, Spain and Japan have a higher percentage of SAHMs.

My point isn't about SAHMs but more that parents (fathers and mothers) are expected to work more and more hours outside of the home. There is a big difference between working PT Vs FT Vs 45 plus hours a week. Childcare often isn't free and is cripplingly expensive for families. Add to this the additional demands placed on parents to be involved in their children's education, to facilitate their children's social lives and to take them to enriching extracurricular activities and you can see that it all adds up to a lot. The days of being able to chuck your kids out of the house in the morning to play on the street all day have largely gone and expectations have risen. Add to this people having kids later and dealing with aging parents and people living further from their support networks and you can see why in this context parents sometimes want/need to be cut some slack.

Attitudes in society though seem to have shifted and children are viewed as a choice and luxury that shouldn't necessarily be worthy of additional support and help. It's complicated and difficult but definitely worth acknowledging and discussing

I don't really care what others think tbh, I was more suggesting that you can tell what your own motives are, if you are honest.

I dislike rude and entitled children and their parents. I don’t have hate towards kids, just dislike, lol.

Great post @Bumpitybumper

I think the pressures on parents are huge atm, and I’m not surprised that increasing numbers of younger people are opting out of parenthood entirely. But you also have the opposite phenomenon (which I see around me a lot) where many people are still very anxious about conforming to societal norms and therefore have the requisite 2 children, when really they would have been much happier if they’d stuck at one, or even remained child-free. So many of the resentful parents I posted about above would be better off having done this (some of them by their own admission) but the stigma around non-traditional family types remains surprisingly potent even now.

@SeulementUneFois Re dual income families and childcare, I agree - it’s certainly the norm in many places outside the U.K. and wouldn’t even be up for debate. But I think we need to consider the quality and affordability of that childcare. Our local nursery is easily the most sought after in the area - baby’s name on waiting list before birth etc - but I was still relieved that I only needed to leave DD there two days a week as, while the staff were universally lovely, they were incredibly young, inexperienced and often barely educated themselves. Even from our two days a week I found myself having to ‘undo’ lots of speech/grammar errors and gender/behaviour stereotypes that DD had picked up from them. We need to value and invest in Early Years education much more in the U.K. if we are to emulate what happens on the continent.

I don't have kids but don't think I agree from what I've observed.

@TripleDaisySummer
*I must admit I was taken aback at the school demands and the educational support need when my DC did fall behind.

The whole You have to parent like you don't work and work like you don't have kids does seem to be an expectation in our society - I don't think house prices and longer commutes help with that but as PP says we aren't only society that has working parents - my DGM both worked full time and DMum worked p/t to be there when we got home having been a latch key kid herself and MIL full time - DH was very much a latch key kid from a very young age. So working mothers aren't new thing even here*
I remember many of my friends being latch key kids too but to be honest, the parents weren't rushing home to help them with their homework or take them to an extra curricular club. There weren't the number of parties there are now and parents weren't expected to facilitate their children's social lives in the same way. My friends' parents would get home, give them some tea and then that would be a job well done. The parents wouldn't log on in the evening and catch up on the work they missed due to cramming in time with their kids after school. It really was a different time!

From my experience of being a child in the past and now having my own children, I think it’s absolutely the opposite.

The rudest I have ever met were French

I agree, but then who the hell likes noisy, disruptive children? I definitely don't and I've made a lot of effort to make sure our 3 are polite and well behaved.

Most kids are great, but some do need to wise up a bit. Maybe they've been a bit cossetted and overprotected but some seem completely oblivious to those around them... standing in the way when people are trying to pass, blocking bus and train exits and not giving up seats to those who need them more. Maybe with older kids it's the herd effect though, since most are absolutely delightful individually.

Children need to learn to observe social conventions but adults also need to respect the right of children (particularly teenagers, I think) to take up space in our society and be seen.

I admit that I do get annoyed when people are pushing a pram/buggy because most of the time, they will walk in the middle of the pavement leaving no space for people to get past or they will leave it in the middle of an isle at the supermarket. A lot of people with prams have no spacial awareness and think that they and their child are the only people to exist.

Some people would define a 'noisy, disruptive child' as one who is talking at all, even if quietly. People on public transport are particularly intolerant of children.

Tbh, anyone who hasn't programmed themselves to leave a 'passing lane' annoys me.

When my DC1 was little, I'd constantly be barking 'move to the side' or 'move out the way, someone is trying to pass us' at them - happily, now, it is second nature.

Yes, my parents were very involved. We all sat round the dinner table every evening. They took me to activities and sports clubs and we spent time together....

.... they wouldn't have dreamed of getting involved in my homework. the closest was to ask me if I'd done it.

I also find it quite frustrating. DS school keep saying we should be overseeing their homework, checking it etc. I do not have time for that. Nor do I have the skills or the inclination. I can and do ensure he has the tools and equipment and space he needs. I chat to him every day about what happened at school, what he's enjoying/not enjoying. I know his favourite teachers and subjects and his friends. We do lots of things together, and enjoy spending time together. I am involved and active in his life. But I resent this implication that I have to play a major role in helping him get better grades.

Not all heroes wear capes 🙏🏽I wish more people were like you.

@Bumpitybumper Absolutely what I’ve noticed re PT and FT working too. We had DD relatively late and most of my friends from school/university had their DC 10-15 years before us. The difference between their working landscape and that of my NCT/school mum friends is incredible, despite both groups being in professional jobs - back then the norm was very to work PT, on average about 3 days a week, whereas now that would be very unusual and almost everyone is working either FT or a 4-day week with compressed hours. And the strain and frustration is very evident in the latter group.

My background is in education and I know a lot of primary teachers - many of them have said recently that, while a decade ago you it was typical for the vulnerable children in school to be those from deprived or abusive backgrounds, there is now a second group of children who are struggling which consists of those children who have very stressed and time-poor working parents - they’re not being read with at home, aren’t completing homework, come into school in the wrong clothes, are anxious attending FT wraparound care etc.

I really like nice polite children but can't stand ones who run me over on bikes and scooters on the pavement or run around screaming in shops and offices. It's no doubt their parents to blame however.

😂. It is the one thing that really gets my goat! Large groups sauntering along, and you're forced to step out into the road to pass them to continue going at a decent pace.

I am told by my husband that I am a slow walker so on that evidence I don't think it's me (accompanied by two young children) being too impatient and wanting to get places super-quickly!

I dislike badly behaved / entitled children. I dislike badly behaved / entitled adults. Oddly, the two things often come in matching pairs.