To think the Labour Party has lost its mind..

[Certainfailure]

Absolutely fuming with some of the clowns in the Labour Party.
25 points ahead of the Conservatives in the opinion polls.
Starmer slowly making the party electable and moving away from the reputation of the party being a left wing student activist group and terrorist supporters. The next GE theirs to lose.
And now word on the grapevine is that 40 odd MPs are ready to resign from the front bench because of they disagree with Starmer’s stance on a ceasefire. Quite a few labour councillors have already resigned from the party and now stand as independents. Big names like Rayner and Burnham have already stuck their oars in too.
Really cannot believe that a conflict thousands of miles away, albeit tragic, has now assumed more importance than the frightful state of the country. That these people are quite happy to throw away the progress that’s been made electorally for the sake of a frankly almost unsolvable conflict that’s lasted 70 plus years and is incredibly complex whilst the country is rapidly falling apart and in desperate need of change.
If Starmer resigns over this, no way will I ever vote Labour again and I say this as a life long labour voter for the last 35 years. Thought we’d seen the last of Corbyn and his vote losing influence but nope, there he is, with his little pet project, destined to scupper yet another GE for Labour. Anyone feel the same way ?

@DottieMoon you haven't addressed the reason their neighbours don't want them? Why is that do you think?

And secondly Palestine have 30,000 Hamas guerrillas firing rockets into Israel and fighting on the streets in Gaza. Funded by aid money. Good enough army for you?

The Labour party’s view on a foreign policy issue like this has zero influence and is not going to change anything at all, unfortunately. Neither will the UK Government for that matter. Not even the EU, China, Russia.
Labour have an obligation to the British people who need a change of Government to think strategically. We’re all deeply outraged and distressed watching Gaza but just like performative social media posts what feels good right now may be more damaging in the long term. One example of this is if Labour return to power they can increase again overseas development aid and reinstall the right to asylum. That may be more helpful than a statement today followed by more years of Tory rule.

Why does if their neighbours want them or not having any bearing on Israel committing genocide? Because neighbouring countries don’t want to accept refugees, they deserve to die? 4 thousand children deserve to die because they won’t be accepted as refugees?

Israel military and rockets which are funded by aid from the west and greatly outnumber Hamas. Good enough army? What’s your point?!

@DottieMoon

Is your username a description of your posting style? Not one thing you’ve said is evidenced. It’s all emotive clap trap. What is happening in Gaza is horrible, complicated, real life- not the plot of some child’s fable. Reducing it to sound bites and half truths is pretty disrespectful and ignorant. Who are you actually helping here?

Which is exactly the problem voters have with all this activist grandstanding.

May be just get to show you what the party is really like. Once KS is elected they will carry on throwing tantrums when not getting their way and probably would kit him out soon after winning the elections.

Most things I’ve said is evidenced. You could say the same for the other posters who are justifying Israel and saying a lot of half truths if not true at all. You are being very biased and ignorant to make a statement to me only. I don’t find your comment helpful to anyone or @notlucreziaborgia comments but we’re allowed our opinions.

So the aid can get in then everyone keeps getting bombed to smithereens.

it’s different actually

It's different, yes, as Hamas have stayed clearly they intend to target Jews and repeat Oct 7th until Israel is annihilated.

This type of attitude is just oh so effective at getting people on side and voting how you want 🙄

@DottieMoon you are an emotive poster with an erratic style. Not once have I said anyone ' deserves to die'. I am pointing out that in an area where Israel is somewhat in the minority not one country has stepped up to do anything eg Jordan? Egypt? That tells you all you need to know about Hamas. They all know what inviting them in means for them and it's not being United.

Once again. Hamas is defending itself.... its firing rockets into Israel still and fighting still.... in light of everything. Not laying down their weapons or leaving for the sake of their people. Not taking the children into the bomb proof tunnels to protect them. Not letting some of that water and fuel go.

Nope much easier to blame Israel.

Your post has summed up why I'm not going to vote Labour (for the first time) at the next election. For many of us the party has always been about principles, about doing the right thing. Starmer has moved it so far away from its values now it's unrecognisable

Labour are absolutely terrifying (I don't and won't ever vote for them or the Tories ever!).

I’m not suggesting it’s a conspiracy. I’m saying it’s a lie.

I see this morning that there are negotiations for a ceasefire for three days. I'm going to make a wild judgment and say that all these heroic and anonymous Labour politicians will sit tight and keep their mouths shut and their jobs intact.

Well exactly. You can’t have a ceasefire when your enemy has committed a calculatedly grotesque atrocity against your country, has said it will do it over and over, wants your annihilation and exults it’s in its own civilians being massacred.

No one listens to Starmer anyway and the Labour party isn't fit for purpose.....never has been. As if either Israel or Hamas will give a shit if the Labour party call for a ceasefire.
Let the back benchers leave (hopefully more) if it means more to them than staying and sorting out their own party.

You are placing the blame for everything squarely on Israel though. That’s quite clear from your posts.

@Blinky21 out of interest who would you like as leader with principles that appeals to swing voters and can win an election.

100pc agree

I'm loving the idea that anyone in Isreal or Palestine gives a flying fuck about what the bloke who might win an election in a year or so and run an increasingly irrelevant UK thinks about anything.

One shadow cabinet member has gone and it's looking extremely unlikely there will be many more. A mass exodus would have happened already.

YADNBU.

Both Tories and Labour will not have my vote. Everything else aside, failing to speak up in order to try and rein in any government that is quite literally massacring their enemy’s civilians is a red line for me.

Right now, I’m looking forward to an independent party that can both fix the damage the Tories have done AND have the backbone to stand up for international humanitarian law. Israeli peace activists have been shouting into the wind for decades, they are now banned from protesting and many have had to go into hiding for fear of reprisal.

That is why what we in the U.K. do, what our government that is supposed to represent us says and does matters a great deal. It’s not a question of fix the damage or support peace and humanitarian law in international conflicts.

The difference between this and Ukraine is that it was easy for politicians to condemn Russia and Putin because historically, they have been our enemies. Palestinian civilians are harder to stand up for because the terrorist organisations that have sprung up within them, make them historically associated with our enemies. But that is the whole point of international humanitarian law- it is to protect the civilians of even your enemy from excess aggression and massacre. These laws are not meant to be applied only to the side of the conflict that you agree and identify with.

They are for all humanity no matter their ethnicity, religion or culture. It is very sad to me that not even children are being accorded this mercy that they are legally entitled to. This conflict is showing the U.K. government to be packed with hypocrites in both the Tory and Labour Party.

A hypocrite in one thing will be a hypocrite in many things. They will promise things to win an election and then do the opposite if it gives them political advantage. This country cannot be fixed by hypocrites no matter what party they come from.

Of course you can have a ceasefire under those conditions. Almost all ceasefires are under similar conditions and with the exact same fear that one party will not abide by it. It is ridiculous to think that two enemies cannot have a ceasefire until they miraculously start trusting each other. Trust is hard won and rebuilt after a ceasefire, never before.