To think the Labour Party has lost its mind..

[Certainfailure]

Absolutely fuming with some of the clowns in the Labour Party.
25 points ahead of the Conservatives in the opinion polls.
Starmer slowly making the party electable and moving away from the reputation of the party being a left wing student activist group and terrorist supporters. The next GE theirs to lose.
And now word on the grapevine is that 40 odd MPs are ready to resign from the front bench because of they disagree with Starmer’s stance on a ceasefire. Quite a few labour councillors have already resigned from the party and now stand as independents. Big names like Rayner and Burnham have already stuck their oars in too.
Really cannot believe that a conflict thousands of miles away, albeit tragic, has now assumed more importance than the frightful state of the country. That these people are quite happy to throw away the progress that’s been made electorally for the sake of a frankly almost unsolvable conflict that’s lasted 70 plus years and is incredibly complex whilst the country is rapidly falling apart and in desperate need of change.
If Starmer resigns over this, no way will I ever vote Labour again and I say this as a life long labour voter for the last 35 years. Thought we’d seen the last of Corbyn and his vote losing influence but nope, there he is, with his little pet project, destined to scupper yet another GE for Labour. Anyone feel the same way ?

Silly post. They obviously don’t believe they can single handedly topple the Israeli government’s plans. But Israel are acting with impunity mostly due to the unwavering support from the very strong, very influential west. We absolutely have a hand in the conflict. We’re not irrelevant.

Thankfully, some politicians actually stand for principles, and I commend them for leaving a party that is absolutely complicit in allowing thousands of innocent children to be killed. It’s despicable. It’s made me genuinely scared about the world I’ve brought my baby into.

YABU. I've always voted Labour previously, but won't again while Keir Starmer is leader. I'm politically homeless at the moment.

I totally agree with you and I am furious about this. It seems as if Corbyn has left a long and undesirable legacy.

*The predictions aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. They’re almost never accurate. In the 2019 election the prediction was for a labour victory or a coalition at best, and the tories won by a landslide8

That is not true. The polls for 2019 were pretty accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election

Is someone going to let Hamas know the shadow levelling up minister has resigned as he would like a ceasefire?

People are deluded if they think the weight of (some) public opinion carries that much sway where either side are concerned. Has covid not taught you anything?

It's the constant
Israel
Israel
Israel

Very few people consider that a ceasefire is a two way street and Hamas will need to stop firing rockets into Israel 'with impunity'. Stop stealing money ' with impunity' or taking civilians hostage and then 'forgetting' where they are 'with impunity'

Israel have made very similar comments about Palestine so don’t act like it’s just Hamas. They have blown up thousands of children and you sit there saying Hamas is the reason. Don’t be so gullible. Israel are indiscriminately bombing Gaza, hospitals, schools, refugee camps etc. dropping white phosphorus on civilians.
That is terrorism and genocide. It’s fucking disgusting that people think this is just because of Hamas. Going after Hamas doesn’t justify the

annihilation if thousands of innocent civilians which. Israel don’t give a fuck who they kill. They class Palestinians as subhuman and want to wipe them out. Their colonizing and oppression started way before Hamas was even started. Netanyahu is a racist monster and has the same disregard for human life as hamas.

Israel don’t want a ceasefire, they want to continue murdering as many Palestinians as possible.

So anything Hamas says and does is justified ‘because Israel’?

I notice that you’ve not addressed at all the actions of Hamas, not even to condemn them. You’re arguing in favour of something, a ceasefire, that Hamas categorically do not want. They don’t want to preserve the lives of their civilians, they don’t want to consider any other course of action than the complete annihilation of Israel.

What exactly do you expect Israel to do? Put the weapons down and smile sweetly as Hamas obliterate them?

🥱

At this point, no idea. Options are just a shit show really 😔

If KS is clever (and I think he is) he’ll sit back and do nothing and let the foot stamping crazies reveal themselves and resign. Because he knows that a lot of people in Britain are absolutely tired of the infighting and the moral policing and the post- colonial left wing obsession with which causes are acceptable or not (Ukraine war excusable and Russia not really wrong, whereas Israel bad and Hamas are freedom fighters).

Most people see the state that the country is in and want that fixed asap. If some Labour MPs are more interested in pointless grandstanding over Palestine than the state of the U.K. then they can piss off.

People accuse the right of being little Englanders. You have forgotten it's 2023 not 1923. Israel, the USA, Russia or even France will be at all interested by what the opposition party in the UK say, think it even do.

I'm a Tory, who actually wants an end to this government. But Labour have gifted the anti Semitic prize to the torys, shown that the hard left still have a ridiculous view of world events, that much of Labour is still very much in "Castro Revolutionary" mind set and, God forbid should there be poor behaviour at armistice day events basically give the torys the next election.

Antisemites in the Labour Party are using the Gaza situation in the same way that misogynist lefty men are using the trans movement . Finding a socially acceptable way to punish the people that they hate. It’s a win win situation for them

i would rather see some ‘pointless grandstanding’ to say the indiscriminate murder of children must stop or some ‘irrelevant posturing’ to say that Netanyahu must cease than see nothing at all.
God help us honestly if we can look at atrocities around the world and turn a blind eye. How arrogant that is. I despair.

@Greywhippet

You would really rather split the vote and cost our country the chance to have a government that will fix the problems that are leading to needless deaths and grinding hardship for people all over the U.K., just so that a statement can be made about the situation in Gaza that neither side will ever read or pay any attention to.

Are your principles more important than affecting real change for the most deprived in this country? Can we built out crumbling school or save the NHS with them?

Because what you are suggesting is that a statement from Keir Starmer- that will not save a single Gazan child’s life- is worth more than making active change to people here by being in government by winning an election.

At no point I have said what Hamas did was justifiable. The attacks last month were horrendous yes I condemn them.

Why can’t you separate Hamas from Palestine?
you keep going back to Hamas. I don’t support Hamas. Hamas and Israel are terrorists.

I am talking about the thousands of innocent Palestinians. You are almost justifying their deaths because Hamas wanted Israel to attack and Hamas are happy to use civilians as martyrs to gain support or hind behind. What you fail to do is condemn Israel committing genocide and excusing them before Hamas.

Im sorry, I’m not expecting Israel to put down their guns and there to be no retaliation for the Hamas attacks but not a fucking genocide, blowing up thousands of children and starving a population. Are you fucking serious?!

At this point what do you expect Palestine to do? Israel have created this, if they hadn’t oppressed and colonised Palestine for decades, this wouldn’t be happening today. It’s unfortunate that the world has stood by and let Israel continue to oppress Palestine because of money and power and the bloody mess it’s in now where there is no easy solution.

@CalistoNoSolo Cool, link me to where Putin stated he wants to wipe out everybody who lives in Ukraine.

@Greywhippet how many other conflicts are you expecting Labour to politicise and virtue signal on? Are you angsting about Yemen/ the Congo and expecting KS to pontificate on or is it just Gaza?

Apparently it's much exaggerated re shadow ministers, who will all want jobs, and Starmer isn't going to change his mind on their say so.

Expect some impassioned speeches in Parliament; but not a mass resigning I think

Youve dismissed every statement against Hamas with ‘bUt IsRaEl ArE big MeAnIeS!’ as if that in any way waves away their actions.

Hamas are the ones using the Palestinians as human shields they are more than happy to sacrifice. They are the ones that want Palestinians to stay and die rather than leave, to the point they have poisoned the well with every country that could offer safe passage. They do not want a ceasefire. You cannot expect Israel to agree to a ceasefire they would be the only ones to abide by, and allow themselves to be repeatedly attacked. That’s batshit.

’Israel have created this’ - by existing and continuing to exist. Hamas has stated time and again that their aim is to annihilate Israel. They have rejected any two state solution. They do not want anything but the wiping of Israel from the map. That’s the reality, and it’s very obviously one that Israel will not, and should not, accept.

Absolutely this. People will see that they have been forgotten about by the Tories but that Labour gives more of a fuck about grandstanding over Palestine and going on marches than it does about them. No one who can do anythibg about the killing in Gaza will listen to Kier Starmer calling for a ceasefire. The US secretary of State is thete. He has said the US will not accept the occupation of Gaza by Israel. The Americans are the only people Israel will take notice of, and they are the only ones whose voice is worth anything on this, whether the Left like it or not. But they cant accept that their other big enemy, the US is eorking to try and sirt this out. The only people that will listen to Kier Starmer will be the people in this country wondering whether the Labour Party is really worth the risk. 100,000 people on a march ( a sizeable minority made up of anti semites and Socialist Worker agitators who turn up to every ruck they can) are not an electorate.

I have not excused or dismissed any statement regarding Hamas so put your specs on and re read. Hamas are horrific, my point is so is Israel and Israel are not committing a genocide just because of Hamas. That is what I am trying to point out to you and you are clearing not understanding.

You are the one excusing Israel’s horrific attacks and blaming it on all hamas.

Israel do not want a two state solution and so please stop trying to convince yourself as it’s completely untrue. They want to keep to their occupied territories and wanted to demilitarise Palestine. That was their proposal. What fucking country would agree to that. Why does Israel have the right to a military to defend themselves but Palestine don’t? You to think that is Israel agreeing to a two state solution. DELUSIONAL!

I completely agree OP
It’s throwing away the UK’s chance of reform. Labour may not have enough MPs to win and we’ll get four or maybe eight years of conservative rule much more to the right, probably led by Braverman, Patel and Farage.

You’ve literally responded with ‘but Israel’ in every reply 😂

Yeah, Israel isn’t going to work with a terrorist organisation that has the stated intention of wiping them out. No shit. You seem to think Israel are required to make allowances yet Hamas can carry the fuck on as they are doing.

Hamas got exactly what they wanted here. They’re getting exactly what they wanted with the lack of ceasefire too.

I can’t be fucked to engage with you any more tbh, but by all means carry on ranting if you feel like it ☺️

I wouldn’t worry, it’s almost inconceivable that Labour aren’t going to win the next election. They could be a led by an old welly dredged from the canal and they’d still get a majority.