V worried about DS12 after seeing what he’d written

[Linagentina]

First off I KNOW you shouldn’t read your kids diary and I most certainly did NOT go looking for it but it was there and we’ve been very worried about him. He’s become quiet, uncommunicative, snappy and lost his lust for life.

We know he’s quite thin but he does eat square meals and snacks and both of us were similar body shape at that age.

He has a phone and is on TikTok with controls in place. But it turns out that it’s the stuff that the controls don’t cover that is the issue.

Am just really shocked and worried. It turns out he’s become a devoted Christian (we have no faith) through watching TikTok Christian stuff. He has been trying to starve himself to please God. Wrote about this in his diary and addresses God directly. Please forgive me Lord, I slipped up and ate something.Reading the bible online.

Just had absolutely no idea this was going on and don’t know what to do. He will never forgive me if he thinks I read his diary though I’m actually glad I did else I’d have had no clue.

Please if you’re one of those posters feeling the urge to tell me I’m a shit mum for reading his diary or for not noticing any of this can you just contain yourself, I’m already feeling awful. Would be so grateful for practical advice though.

Who was looking after him when you were on holiday?

I’d ask what his eating was like then.

First step is to delete TikTok. Will be some backlash, no doubt but 12 year olds have no place using this app. Watch the Panorama on TikTok, children should NOT be using it.

Second step is to seek medical help, go see your GP.

I don’t comment on threads much but felt compelled to having read your post @Linagentina - I am a child psychiatrist and find this incredibly concerning, you have done the right thing by making a GP appointment. This is a child I would want to see in my clinic urgently - I would ask the GP to call your local CAMHS and ask to speak with the duty psychiatrist ASAP rather than refer in normally.

Please feel free to PM me. Wishing you all the best x

Firstly I'd want to know what he's watching to get this info that he needs to starve himself. Secondly I'd be honest with him and tell him that if he's really interested in being a Christian then you'll support him to go to church and do an alpha course or similar. That you will support his choices but he needs to be getting reliable info because anyone can go online and say anything. Then I'd do your homework on what church to take him to. Ideally one with a good youth pastor who can connect with him on his level and who's maybe more informed on social media issues. You could ring ahead and ask for the churches stance on issues that are important to you as some are more conservative than others. I'd be inclined to watch out for his mental health and if you're worried he's depressed/ has an eating disorder that's being masked by the religion chat then go to the gp as well. Earlier this is nipped in the bud the better.

How is his mental health? A family member became very religious and did some weird stuff and it turned out they had developed psychosis. May well not be that but I thought I'd mention.

That sounds incredibly worrying op.

It goes without saying that Christianity does not require kids to starve themselves. Do you know any sensible, normal Christians in real life who could speak to him? Although I suspect this is not really about faith but about control, brainwashing, thinking he's found his soul mates. How is he with friendships in general?

I think you have to tell him you read it. You can’t ignore that kind of info and have to act on it

I'm a Christian who fasts... Wednesday and Friday, Lent, Nativity and a couple of other periods in the year. Fasting is traditionally a central part of Christianity and many other faiths. eg in Scots and Irish Gaelic: Dé Céadaoin, Wednesday, is “the day of the first fast,” Déardaoin, Thursday, is “the day between the fasts,” and Dé hAoine, Friday, is “the day of the main fast.” This is abstaining from animal products, ie basically vegan, rather than all caloric foods. Shrove Tuesday was about using up all the animal products in the house like eggs and butter before the 40 odd days of what would now be called a vegan diet during Lent.

However, this sounds like it's well tipped into religious scrupulosity / OCD & mental health territory. Young children aren't encouraged to fast anyway, and fasting is always done in the spirit of the direction, rather than the letter of the law... there's always relaxation for pregnant women, elderly, those travelling or ill health etc. And it's always in tandem with prayer and charity, eg donating to the food bank. Is he attending church? If he wants to pursue the faith he really needs to go to one with a good priest and junior catechism class to fully understand the basics, not going off Tiktok etc... social media is really bad for catechesis as you don't know the spiritual and knowledge credentials of those presenting and posting. A priest would be able to advise about how to fast... for a kid, it would be probably be about abstaining from sweets/treats/fast food at that age... kids that age need calories and the protein and nutrients from animal foods for a healthy puberty and growth. Internet Christianity can take people to some bad curves away from a healthy relationship with God, so it's important to get it right early on from a church teacher in the parish.

Firstly, I'm that parent who thinks that "privacy" is overrated when you're 12. Privacy to bathe, cultivate relationships with friends and family, be outdoors etc? Yes. Privacy to explore the internet? No. Privacy to read a diary? If I had no concerns about my child, I wouldn't do it. If I already had worries, I absolutely would read whatever is left lying around and I absolutely would expect access to email and whatsapp etc. I'd also talk to whichever trusted adults are in his life. He's 12, he's your responsibility. Period. It gets murkier later, but at 12 it's a non-point.

Secondly, I would approach this by communicating with him. I'd reassure him he's loved and cherished and that whatever he says - WHATEVER - is fine to say out loud. That all you want to do is help him be healthy and happy and worry-free (poor kid). I'd want to know if this is about religion, about food, about belonging, about social media. I'd want to get to the root of it, and take it from there. Puberty is difficult, 12 is difficult (it's all difficult). Odds are it's a phase, but there's a chance it's not.

I do NOT think that outright banning TikTok is the solution. It's dealing with the symptom rather than the cause. TikTok is just the medium, the content is the substance. If he doesn't find what he needs on TikTok, he'll find it elsewhere.

Hi @Linagentina, previous posters have said everything you need to know and talking to the GP is absolutely the right move. I was in a rather fervently Christian environment as a teen, which had its downsides but this kind of message was absolutely not part of it! If you can find some way that suits you of connecting him with more 'normal' Christians locally or online, I do hope they can reassure him that God is love and fundamentally that's all it's about. Starving yourself doesn't come into it.

But anyway, what I meant to say is that this sounds very much like my dd (now 16) who is anorexic. As far as we saw she was eating her meals as usual. She has never purged (I do trust her on that - she is terrified of being sick and just had to be treated for constipation 🙄) but she managed to totally hide the fact that actually she was only having one small evening meal a day. I still don't know how she did it. Eating disorders are incredibly sneaky and tenacious and you definitely should not feel bad that you hadn't noticed anything - we only realised once dd had lost 15 kg in three months, but it was like a sudden shock, as if she was dangerously thin all at once. We hadn't seen it coming at all. She is doing much better now - our GP was great and dd was referred to a specialist dietician and therapist who have been brilliant with her. I really hope yours can provide the support you all need, and your ds is much healthier and happier soon.

Do you think it might be an idea to go to a local church and speak to the vicar? Maybe he is looking for something? Some sort of spiritual guidance. Unfortunately he appears to have stumbled across bad influences but maybe you could gently redirect?
I’m sure your local vicar would be happy to sit with him to discuss faith.

It's not "a thing in Christianity" is it? It's just some crappy tiktok cult thing using Christianity as a convenient screen to make it sound more legitimate.

Sorry OP this must be an awful thing to have discovered. I understand that whichever "flavour" of tiktok high-control group someone ends up caught up in, the "treatment" is basically the same - cut off or reduce access to the online material, increase contact with the real world, any relationships IRL, any sense of responsibility, and get him some urgent MH support because these groups latch onto any insecurities or worries that people have. It might also be worth looking at any screeners/assessments for neurodivergent type conditions as well - because someone being vulnerable or struggling or feeling that they do not fit in, particularly surrounding puberty, is extremely common with these conditions and can manifest in latching onto an online world that seems to have a fitting answer.

Fingers crossed that at 12, it's not too difficult to restrict his online access and increase his presence in the real world. I quite like this guide for helping DC be less reliant on screens as their only entertainment: https://slate.com/human-interest/2010/05/how-to-motivate-an-inert-child.html

That graphic above I would place tiktok in a much higher age category. I think DS1 was about 14/15 before I let him use it and we had lots of talks (he eye rolled at me) about the way that tiktok content creators can build these very exploitative circles and the way that 99% of info on tiktok is either misinformation or just plain misinformed.

The cult thing is generally to sell something - membership to a group and online courses are the usual starter things, with some of the bigger ones making these massive "retreats" which are real moneymakers apparently.

@Linagentina Do you have any christian friends?

If he really is serious about christianity, it could be worth one of them having a friendly chat about how god wants him to look after his body and he needs food to stay healthy and do good things for others (or however it should be worded...I am not religious!)

This should be alongside getting him support for his MH though, as this does sound like it's tipping into OCD-like behaviour.

I think the religion thing is a red herring. You could offer to explore membership of a local church or church youth group, but I don't think it is going to make that much difference whether you do that or not.

The key will be extracting him from that specific circle and increasing engagement with offline life in any format.

It isn’t online privacy at 12…it’s his handwritten diary which a 12 year old absolutely should expect privacy for.

I agree with @DogandMog - my DD now 20 had religious and moral OCD, starts around that age and few people aware of it. Try Young Minds or the OCD Action helplines for advice.

I am not religious, but I think you should bring him to an actual church to talk to a pastor / priest. If he wants to be a Christian, great, the way he is going about it isn’t safe though.

He might find a great community at a church.

How very worrying for you.

It is not uncommon for children of this age to develop a strong fear of death - they are old enough to fully grasp that the pow/zap stuff on the TV is not real, but too young to begin to accept the reality of life being finite. I always used to talk to my children about life as a cycle and that we simply return to how we were before we were born and become part of the natural order of things. It may not be enough to tell him that hell does not exist - although clearly you were right to do that - he might need something a bit more concrete and in-depth.

It is beyond evil that there are people out there who get a kick out of twisting young minds and causing this sort of suffering. But there they are, waiting to exploit the young.

Personally I would tell him that you have read his diary and it was because you are so worried about his well-being. It is part of a parent's duty of care - on a par with changing their nappies, feeding and clothing them etc. You cannot ignore what is happening and he has to understand that it is all based on your love for him and concern for his well-being and happiness. I know the whole dairy thing is difficult as you need to keep his trust, so this is of course a difficult area.

You may have to engage in some in-depth conversations with him - however reluctant he might be - about life and death, about the exploitative nature of some people online, about your love for him, about the steps you plan to take with his phone etc to protect him.

The school need to know - he might not be the only child who is being led down this path and they will need to take their own steps to deal with this school-wide.

Some posters have suggested talking with a vicar or engaging with a church - but please be careful. Belief within churches is on a bit of a spectrum and unless you get the right person or the right church community it could potentially make things worse.

I am so sorry that these evil people have wheedled their way into your lovely son's life, and thus into yours.

Just wanted to flag up @LeCreusetLove’s post to you OP in case you skim and miss it. Sounds like you could get some great guidance there.

This is why I love mumsnet strangers using their expertise to help other strangers!!

For my part I’d be really really careful how you go about things. If you think he’d feel really betrayed that you read his diary then you need to be careful he doesn’t guess by your actions. Definitely get expert help in this. All the best.

First of all get rid of TikTok. 12yos should not have any access to it. And start monitoring his phone openly. He's 12, he doesn't get online privacy when it's so dangerous.

Then I'd think about helping him to find a church or youth group who will be able to help him explore faith in a healthier way. Show him a positive alternative, rather than stopping him from doing something.

Poor boy and poor you! You have done nothing to be ashamed of. Sounds less like he has been converted and more like OCD with intrusive thoughts. How awful, I would take him to the GP and look for a private therapist.

Can you get a priest to speak to him about how what he is doing is not required as a Christian?!

I am so sorry to hear about this.

I seem to have read something about a religious cult to do with this where the "pastor" encourages youngsters to behave thus. You might wish to research along those lines. The idea of getting a "conventional" vicar/priest involved is an excellent one...

Thoughts with you @Linagentina

Did he leave his diary out in an open place where you could find it easily? A family member did this when she was being SA as a teen and no one read it but she had detailed every aspect of what she was going through. the therapist that worked with her after said every time she left it out it was a cry for help.

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that requires children to fast to please God. I don't know about the psychological drivers behind what he's doing, and I would tend to think there's something deeper going on here. If this were me I'd probably say, "I noticed you're not eating as much as usual, is something going on?" And then depending on his answer, I'd use that as a way to get some adult intervention, whether via a counselor or something like that.