Making DD do housework

[AIBUmum2023]

So my DD disengaged from education at 16. The country we live in has mandatory education up to 18, and there was a lot of active input to try to get her back to school. My GP said to me that I need to make it so that either education or employment is better than being at home!

Right now, she can’t keep her bedroom tidy, we live in a relatively new house and she’s had mould growing on the (internal) walls and the inside of the windows (which I had to clean as she refused and at the end of the day, it’s my house that is being ruined). She doesn’t put rubbish in the bin, she doesn’t put clothes in for washing, she never changes her bed sheets, she doesn’t brush her teeth, she doesn’t shower. She says she can’t get a job or do a college course because she has anxiety, for which she is medicated, when she bothers to take the medication and she literally spends all day (and night) in her room, watching films, chatting to her friends or trying on outfits and doing make up.

A couple of months ago, I told her that I would take her devices away until her room was clean and she snuck out of the house, sent a text that she was in a “safe” place, said she didn’t feel safe at home and went off for a week, where we didn’t know where she was, so we left her to her own devices. She returned home, said that she owned her devices and that if we took them off her, then she would call the police as that’s theft. To which I said that we (her dad and I) paid for her SIM card, bought her the phone and laptop, paid for everything for her, including her clothes and the broadband she uses, and should we be calling the police for her essentially stealing our SIM card and broadband? I said this to show her how ridiculous she was being.

Since then, I’ve managed to get her to change her bed sheets once, help me change my bed and launder my bedlinens twice and she’s also done her brother’s bedding once (he works a 40 hour week, which would be 42.5 hours but he gets a 30 minute meal break, and he works shifts. He also pays keep, as we pay for everything for him, except his smokes and clothes). She averages once a week for vacuuming common areas and mopping floors. Twice a month for cleaning her bathroom. The only thing I absolutely insist she does is hanging out the washing to dry, emptying and refilling the dishwasher, feeding the cats twice a day, and cleaning the litter boxes.

Last week, she said she was going to stay the night with her friend - she came back late Monday night after a week away. She then asked why neither DH or I had contacted her and DH said that we had been here and she should have contacted us to let us know she was staying away so long. She did phone me on her way home, saying she had missed me and could I collect her from the train station! DH went.

She can’t cook, even though I try to get her to help me in the kitchen and she says that she has an eating disorder, which the psychologist she has started seeing for her anxiety, told her that she has. A couple of years ago, she was seeing a counsellor about her refusal to go to school, and at that time, she came home saying that the counsellor (who isn’t allowed to diagnose anything due to only having a 1 year certificate from college) said that she had PTSD and ADHD (which she has never been diagnosed with, and that no one else has said either). She is having an assessment done to see if she has an eating disorder.

She has gone through a stage where she refused to eat with the family, but then I caught her eating late at night (think 2 am) and also eating lots of junk food (getting her friends to order her Uber eats in the middle of the night), but she will tell the GP, for example, that she doesn’t eat as she’s not hungry, and has no appetite.

There is no bullying or anything in her past, in fact she was a very popular girl with lots of friends and she did very well at school, although to hear her now, she can’t add up 2+2, doesn’t know how many grams in kilo, etc., etc., and I told DH that I think she has weaponised incompetence because things she could perfectly well, she will now say that she can’t do, and never has been able to do.

Anyway, this morning (Tuesday, I’m a lot ahead of the UK), she comes and says to me that she thought that everything would fall apart without her here as she’s the glue that holds the family and house together. To which I just stared at her, in disbelief and shook my head!

Both DH and I have refused to give her money, or buy clothes, makeup, hair dye etc., for her, and we’ve said she either goes back to her job (which was a casual job but she was being trained in lots of different areas, such as cashing up, etc., and didn’t have to restock shelves or anything like that, so not strenuous), finds another full time job, or goes back to education and gets a qualification (if you drop out of school before the end of the school year where you turn 18, you don’t get a qualification at all).

So, my dear fellow parents, am I being unreasonable with my demands of daily dishwashing emptying/refilling, laundry hanging out and bringing in, and cat care?

I don't see why she would choose to live like this and therefore I would say she has some complicated issues. However it is right for you to continue to support her to engage with life and activities of daily living. I don't think she should be changing your bed or her brothers bed but the rest sounds reasonable as long as she sees others completing tasks too. I imagine it is upsetting and frustrating for you , and I hope she gets the intervention she needs and can can find the motivation to make use of this.

Definitely not, I had one of those, this could have been me posting this! Everything was just too hard and to be brutally honest I really think that she just made no effort to help herself, and still doesn't.

Change the wifi password and remove her access to the internet. If you're paying for the phone plan, cancel that. "Grown up" girls who think they know the world can figure out how to pay for it themselves. In my case, I also removed my daughter from her bedroom and made it clear there are no free rides - I told her she wasn't out on the street but she hasn't held up her end of the bargain so no more private room (her bed was placed in the dining area).

I don't have a happy ending I'm afraid, all of these things didn't force DD to get her shit together, and after a failed move out (she messed up her part time job and I was stuck with the rent bills on her new flat) I told her she would need to leave. Fortunately (?) by telling them she was being evicted by me, the city we lived in then allocated her a "supported housing" temporary place for mental health and from there she has gone on to her own flat, still under care for her anxiety issues - she has still never held down a job ten years later but with all the love in the world it's not my job to support a kid in their late-20s, no matter how much I care about her.

@Doingmybest12

She helped me with my bedding because I’m unable to manage it by myself sometimes (physical disability) but my bedding gets changed twice a week, so she doesn’t usually have to help me. And I got her to do her brother’s linens as she told me that she had nothing to do.

I’ve spent a lot of time and money taking her to specialists, mental health support, such as CAMHS, psychologists, etc., and the only diagnosis (so far) is anxiety.

Even when she was little, she hated putting her toys away, would empty every single toy box, jigsaw box, and game all over her bedroom floor, then not want to help me and her siblings to tidy up. So being tidy and neat doesn’t come naturally and she’s never been able to put one thing away, before getting another out.

Her clothes are just left to drop on the floor, and her wardrobe is only a quarter full - all other clothes are stuffed down the side and end of the bed, and I’m pretty sure that she doesn’t know what’s clean and what’s not. A few times she’s got dressed to go and meet her friends and her clothes are creased and stained. There is makeup all over the floor and the expensive desk she wanted is now covered in paint and glue.

That’s another thing. She says she can’t go out as she’s too anxious but she will make plans with friends and happily go on the bus and train to meet them!

They adapt over time (it's called Hedonistic Adaption). There's one small downgrade that they don't like, but after a while it becomes normal and they accept it. Things get a bit dirtier and then they are used to it. Bit by bit. You take away their spending money, big deal, they learn how to sweet talk their friends or steal what they want. Teenagers will put up with incredibly gross and impoverished situations because it's going on gradually and they've already dug their heels in refusing to comply with whatever the parent asked right back at the beginning.

@Froooty

I’m so sorry that you’ve had to deal with this. I don’t understand it because my other kids aren’t like this, just her. I would love to leave her incommunicado and will talk to DH when he’s home to see what he things. We can actually turn her access to everything on her phone off using the ISP app, so perhaps we should do this!

I have told her that I’m getting a sleep out (glorified shed) put in the garden and that will be her room, but she just moans and says that it’s because I don’t want her anymore and that I’m not normal for wanting to “throw her out”. Well, I’m not throwing her out at all, I’m simply removing her from the main house because I don’t want to deal with the mess, smell, and mould, that comes with housing her.

She will still have access to the house via the back door and as long as she doesn’t let the cats out, then she’ll be fine. She will still have electricity etc.

I’m just at the end of my tether! And I suspect she will end up like your daughter, as she doesn’t have qualifications to get a job anywhere, and most jobs like people to have at least their school leaving certificate, which she doesn’t have.

@Froooty

Thank you for that information. I hadn’t heard of that but I’m going off to google that right now 🙂

I think you might have more hope than I did for your DD. She's still socialising and going out and doing things (mine retreated). It was bloody hard for us to take away the creature comforts that mine was enjoying, but we stuck to the exact line, which was, we've offered you help to get work and that offer is still there, we've offered to help you get back into study and you refuse to do either, this was the deal we offered you and you have rejected it, so we're no longer giving you nice things for free.

It's not acceptable for you to sit around doing nothing and we won't help you do that.

Good luck. I hope things work out for you and your DD sees the light. xx

I agree that she should be helping, and that you can't make life with no purpose comfortable. But a teenage girl should not have to change a grown man's bedding. No.

I had one like this. In the end we had a major bust up. Her mess became intolerable as she hoarded too.

Now she has her own place, we go shopping for house items together ( have just been discussing which mop may be best), she cooks.

All I will say is to keep lines of communication open. Teenagers can test you to the limit. I knew living in the same house was unsustainable but I made sure she was financially ok. It allowed her to stand on her own feet.

I'm sure you will get the usual MN brigade saying it's about parenting but I like you have other teens that are angels.

He’s only one year older and there was no “mess”, just changing the bedding. And surprisingly, that was the only time she hasn’t moaned about changing the bedding! She even moans and carries on when I tell her to change hers! Although, the day after she did her brothers, she did her own! Also, I know that her brother is secretly subbing her, but not telling us! These kids just don’t realise that we are parents and we know things……😉

Thank you @Froooty. I’m too soft and don’t like to see the kids upset, but she’s just getting on my last nerve right now! She hasn’t done anything this morning so we’ll see what she does this afternoon!

Oh wait, she made me a coffee 🙄

Oh, I feel your pain! DD hoards too, clothes, dolls, anything really. Even too small shoes. She did recently throw all her old school books away. After three years of not being in school 🙄.

I should have also mentioned that DD is the youngest and the only girl. I’m not drip feeding, just forgot to say before. It may or may not be relevant as she has older brothers who were/are very generous to her as well.

It’s just that she has no work ethic (which is hard for us, as we’ve always taught the kids that the key to having independence of any sort is about working. Yes, there’s social security but then the government have a say in what you do, what you can afford, even where you can afford to live!), she can’t seem to keep her clothes or room in any order, and she thinks that she doesn’t need to take responsibility for anything. And now, I’m also just moaning!

My DD was very much like this. Missed the last two years of high school, first year if college, room a disgrace, no personal hygiene, prone to outburst, incapable of being organised etc.
She also has Anxiety, and has now been diagnosed ASD. She started in Setraline in the summer, and is now back at college… tidies her room.. and (though. It perfect) is much better at looking after herself.
You’ll get a lot of people on here who will advocate “tough love”, and who think your problems will be solved by removing her devices or the WiFi password. If your child is ND, then that’s unlikely to work.
If her anxiety is bad enough to be medicated at 16 (and 16 year olds can usually only be perscribed anti-anxiety meds by a CAMHS Consultant).. then that it real issue. You need to make sure she is taking her pills every day, as you will be suprised what a difference they make. You also need to talk to your CAMHS consultant about ND. Has she had the ASD and ADHD test yet, to rule those in or out?
If she is ND with associated anxiety, you’ll need to adapt your parenting style.

Am I missing something here- your daughter with anxiety stopped attending school so you put her bed in the dining room?

You’ve clearly indulged her far too long from a young age. And now she’s taking the piss. Get tough.

By the way, is there anyone out there who doesn’t have anxiety. It’s seems to be the catch all term for laziness and bone idleness. If you allow people to take you for a ride by blaming everything on ‘anxiety’ then you’re a fool.

She isn’t under CAHMS, she was discharged (at 16, she was under them long enough to rule out anxiety and not be put on meds) after having assessments for ADHD (she doesn’t have it).

CAHMS in this country doesn’t diagnose ASD, so we paid for the paediatrician and she doesn’t have ASD or ADHD according to the paediatrician.

The GP has prescribed her medication since she’s over 18 and she doesn’t want me to be involved in reminding her or having anything to do with her meds, apart from ordering them at the chemist and paying for them! I have a lot of experience with ASD and ND youth and young adults.

So far, the only thing she has been “officially” diagnosed with is anxiety and that’s because the GP gave her the DASS test after she went to him and reported that she had filled out the test online from a help website. That test asks how you have felt over the past few weeks. The GP will be doing the ED assessment soon, but I don’t know if she’s booked the appt yet.

@tpxqi

I do think she’s spoilt and she acts very entitled, then when we pull her about things she acts really hurt.

I don’t know what causes her anxiety as she says it’s going out and being around people, but then will go out and catch buses and trains quite happily to meet up with her friends, or to go and buy clothes etc., so it’s hard for me to then believe she has this anxiety because she says one thing and then does the opposite.

Also, cleaning her bedroom causes her to have panic attacks. That’s what she said this afternoon!

It wasn’t as simple that. Knowing what @Froooty went through, I can understand where she was coming from!

When you’ve dragged around and paid for specialists, and had all the tests done and then your child doesn’t appear to actually have anything wrong with them, you get to the end of your tether.

This is why I’m thinking of putting my DD into the garden, where she can live in squalor and sh1t to her hearts content and not have mould growing in my house. Can you honestly imagine what it’s like to see furry mould growing on internal wall behind clothes, and also on the inside of the windows?

As a PP said, I have spoilt her. Probably too much. We moved into our newly built house 10 years. I’ve never had my bedroom redecorated. Her bedroom has not only been redecorated twice, she’s also had new furniture twice and new flooring once! Her brother has had new flooring, redecorating and furniture once!

Anxiety is just the symptom that is hobbling her functioning and stuck emotional development.

There is likely an unresolved trauma causing the anxiety symptoms. What’s the family history?

Or I agree a ND or LD that has overwhelmed her.

There is no unresolved trauma at all.

She had a private school education, was more than thriving at school, the principal wanted her for the student leadership team, she was invited by the principal to speak via zoom to a head teacher conference about females in stem, which was very well regarded, the principal herself intervened many times to try to lure her back to school. She absolutely excelled at school and was planning for either law or medicine at university, so it was startling when she became a school refuser.

She has had a lot of professional input from the outset, had so many assessments and the only thing she was diagnosed with was anxiety after she went on to a mental health website and took a test online, which diagnosed her with anxiety and then went to the GP and had the same test administered there and the GP put her on medication. That was earlier this year.

Paediatricians, psychiatrists and psychologists haven’t yet found anything wrong, except she now has said something to her current psychologist, who has written and asked the GP to do this eating disorder assessment.

I am just so perplexed by this whole thing.

To suddenly as 16 decide you want to disengage from education!

She carried on doing 2 part time jobs until the end of last year, when she gave up one job and then she continued on with her other job until earlier this year.

Although, thinking about it, she gave up working after her brother questioned why he had to pay board but she didn’t, so I told her to pay a nominal amount as it does get them into good habits for when they leave home, earmarking money for bills first. She paid the first week, then stopped working! And it wasn’t much, £10 per week against her salary of ~£150. It was very part time and casual.

Unresolved trauma that stops her cleaning her bedroom?

Heard it all now.

So this sounds SOMEWHAT similar to a situation I was in when I was about 17 and there definitely some steps my parents took that helped me.

I do want to preface this with the fact that my parents were not great parents - there was a lot of emotional abuse at home from my dad and my mum would assuage her guilt by spoiling me with material things and pretty much letting me do whatever I wanted (completely passive parenting).

So on one side of the coin I was a very spoilt entitled teenager but on the other side of the coin I was also a deeply hurting and anxious teenager.

I say all this because I am assuming that you and your husband are nice normal parents who maybe just spoil their kids a bit much and you haven’t done anything to traumatise them or give them PTSD or anxiety.

So this ‘passive’ parenting where I was spoiled and given way too much freedom meant that when I was about 16/17 I completely failed a year of schooling and in my house academia was a big deal so this was completely unacceptable. And my dad came down hard on me and now looking back (although I still think he is an 💩) this was actually very good for me.

1. I wasn’t allowed to sleep in past 8am. It didn’t matter what I had done the night before (if I had been out partying or up until 5am) I was expected to be up and out of bed every morning by 8am. And yes in the beginning this caused numerous screaming matches but my dad would just rip the duvet off me and I would not be allowed to go back to sleep or wallow in bed. Eventually I just accepted my fate and would get up and be out of bed every morning before he even came in my room. I also was not allowed to just sit around and watch tv during the day.

2. I had an 8pm curfew every night on weeknights

3. my parents stopped paying for ANYTHING for me that was considered a ‘nice to have’. So new clothes, going out money etc so if I wanted nice things I had to get a job. But once my grades improved and I showed that I was putting in effort with my schooling the ‘nice’ things did start up again. So in the end theygot me to not only get a part time job but also improve my grades etc and actually try at school.

4. My room was not allowed to be a mess. Anything that was left on the floor etc like clothes would be thrown away.

Although at the time I thought they were being awful and hated them for it, looking back now it was incredibly good for me because it gave my life some structure, made me have a better work ethic and stopped me from acting like such an entitled teenager.

If it was me in your shoes and this was my child here is what I would do:

1. Morning wake up time where she has to be up and out of bed

2. Stop paying her phone bill

3. No wifi access at home unless she is doing schooling or applying for jobs etc. Internet access is a privilege not a necessity.

4. Weekday curfew

5. Explain to her this it is your house that she is living in and her room is part of that so you expect her to keep it clean. Clean/tidy her room with her once to show her the standard you expect and then from that point on everyday at midday if you go in her room and there are things on the floor or not put away properly then they will just go straight in a rubbish bag and down to the dump. Seems harsh I know but she sounds like she has no respect for your property or her things. She will learn very quickly how to pick up after herself when all her stuff keeps being thrown away.

6. Put her in actual therapy - stop trying to get her diagnosed with various ailments or using counselling. If she truly has anxiety then she needs to be working with a qualified psychotherapist doing talk therapy to get to the bottom of what is going on with her.

7. Make a condition of living at home that she has to volunteer and organise volunteer work for her with people who are much less fortunate. This will help her gain perspective on just how incredibly privileged she is and help with the spoilt/entitled behaviour.

8. list of chores she is expected to complete daily and every week that she can tick off.

You want to do enough for her at home that she has what she needs to survive but that is it so that it is unpleasant enough for her she gets a bit of a a fire in her butt about doing something! And then when the behaviour improves and she either gets a job or goes back to school, then the nice things like money, having her phone bill paid etc come back as well.

Expect all of this to be met with screaming and lots and lots of arguments about how evil and cruel you are but just stick to your guns as it sounds like you may have spoiled her a smidge and need to give her some perspective and work ethic.

I really disagree with the shed idea as I think you are not teaching her any lessons but instead just giving her carte Blanche to wallow in filth and it will just get worse - like a previous poster said it’s learned hedonism and she will adjust. You really want to focus on teaching her the skills she needs not just giving her her own separate cesspit because you don’t want to deal with it in your house - again this shed idea just feels like you doing something extra to accommodate her spoilt behaviour.

I hope this helps coming from someone who has been in your daughters shoes.

In fairness to the PP, she ran away for a week when I threatened to take her devices away until her bedroom was cleaned! She snuck out to a “safe” place as she wasn’t feeling safe because I was “forcing” her to clean her room and was going to take her devices away!

She is a school refuser and an eating disorder - two very serious MH issues for teenagers.

But it seems like that the state of her bedroom has you at the end of your tether. I think your priorities are misplaced or your anxiety about her significant and seemingly entrenched MH issues are being deflected and projected.

“She averages once a week for vacuuming common areas and mopping floors. Twice a month for cleaning her bathroom. The only thing I absolutely insist she does is hanging out the washing to dry, emptying and refilling the dishwasher, feeding the cats twice a day, and cleaning the litter boxes.”

That seems a sufficient chore list that she’s getting through (as well as doing others laundry) but her room is a tip - maybe as a resistance to the control and not being heard or respected?

“she just moans and says that it’s because I don’t want her anymore and that I’m not normal for wanting to “throw her out”.

Listen to your DD. Why is her emotional experience not valid?

You moved her bed to the dining room.

Are moving her to a garden shed.

Didn’t call her when she was away for a week.

Anyone would feel rejected and humiliated in this situation.

Listen to her. I asked about possible trauma you emphatically said there was none - but you have a disability that will impact any child. Listen to her.

I have no sense of love, tenderness or compassion from you to your child.