Making DD do housework

[AIBUmum2023]

So my DD disengaged from education at 16. The country we live in has mandatory education up to 18, and there was a lot of active input to try to get her back to school. My GP said to me that I need to make it so that either education or employment is better than being at home!

Right now, she can’t keep her bedroom tidy, we live in a relatively new house and she’s had mould growing on the (internal) walls and the inside of the windows (which I had to clean as she refused and at the end of the day, it’s my house that is being ruined). She doesn’t put rubbish in the bin, she doesn’t put clothes in for washing, she never changes her bed sheets, she doesn’t brush her teeth, she doesn’t shower. She says she can’t get a job or do a college course because she has anxiety, for which she is medicated, when she bothers to take the medication and she literally spends all day (and night) in her room, watching films, chatting to her friends or trying on outfits and doing make up.

A couple of months ago, I told her that I would take her devices away until her room was clean and she snuck out of the house, sent a text that she was in a “safe” place, said she didn’t feel safe at home and went off for a week, where we didn’t know where she was, so we left her to her own devices. She returned home, said that she owned her devices and that if we took them off her, then she would call the police as that’s theft. To which I said that we (her dad and I) paid for her SIM card, bought her the phone and laptop, paid for everything for her, including her clothes and the broadband she uses, and should we be calling the police for her essentially stealing our SIM card and broadband? I said this to show her how ridiculous she was being.

Since then, I’ve managed to get her to change her bed sheets once, help me change my bed and launder my bedlinens twice and she’s also done her brother’s bedding once (he works a 40 hour week, which would be 42.5 hours but he gets a 30 minute meal break, and he works shifts. He also pays keep, as we pay for everything for him, except his smokes and clothes). She averages once a week for vacuuming common areas and mopping floors. Twice a month for cleaning her bathroom. The only thing I absolutely insist she does is hanging out the washing to dry, emptying and refilling the dishwasher, feeding the cats twice a day, and cleaning the litter boxes.

Last week, she said she was going to stay the night with her friend - she came back late Monday night after a week away. She then asked why neither DH or I had contacted her and DH said that we had been here and she should have contacted us to let us know she was staying away so long. She did phone me on her way home, saying she had missed me and could I collect her from the train station! DH went.

She can’t cook, even though I try to get her to help me in the kitchen and she says that she has an eating disorder, which the psychologist she has started seeing for her anxiety, told her that she has. A couple of years ago, she was seeing a counsellor about her refusal to go to school, and at that time, she came home saying that the counsellor (who isn’t allowed to diagnose anything due to only having a 1 year certificate from college) said that she had PTSD and ADHD (which she has never been diagnosed with, and that no one else has said either). She is having an assessment done to see if she has an eating disorder.

She has gone through a stage where she refused to eat with the family, but then I caught her eating late at night (think 2 am) and also eating lots of junk food (getting her friends to order her Uber eats in the middle of the night), but she will tell the GP, for example, that she doesn’t eat as she’s not hungry, and has no appetite.

There is no bullying or anything in her past, in fact she was a very popular girl with lots of friends and she did very well at school, although to hear her now, she can’t add up 2+2, doesn’t know how many grams in kilo, etc., etc., and I told DH that I think she has weaponised incompetence because things she could perfectly well, she will now say that she can’t do, and never has been able to do.

Anyway, this morning (Tuesday, I’m a lot ahead of the UK), she comes and says to me that she thought that everything would fall apart without her here as she’s the glue that holds the family and house together. To which I just stared at her, in disbelief and shook my head!

Both DH and I have refused to give her money, or buy clothes, makeup, hair dye etc., for her, and we’ve said she either goes back to her job (which was a casual job but she was being trained in lots of different areas, such as cashing up, etc., and didn’t have to restock shelves or anything like that, so not strenuous), finds another full time job, or goes back to education and gets a qualification (if you drop out of school before the end of the school year where you turn 18, you don’t get a qualification at all).

So, my dear fellow parents, am I being unreasonable with my demands of daily dishwashing emptying/refilling, laundry hanging out and bringing in, and cat care?

@junbean

DH is fantastic but he gets quite annoyed with her constant refusals to help and excuses, and says that we should refuse to give her money or buy her anything but I don't agree and I try to be the buffer between them because I don't want her to feel like she has no one, although her siblings are supportive, but also don't understand why she won't just do something. Bizarrely they tell me off for being "too nice" to her. Apparently I should use some mythical mum "superpower" that they seem to believe I possess (I have a thing they call "The Look", which they say still scares them now 🙄) to make her "bend to my will". Pretty sure they're confusing me with a different omniscient, omnipotent power, and even He took a day off! I was thinking of doing some travelling earlier this year, to catch up with various cousins and such but it didn't happen for various reasons, so maybe next year! We'll see.

@EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness

I was just discussing PDA last week with a colleague, although in relation to someone else! If DD didn't have a history of avoidance since such a young age, it would definitely be worth looking into more.

I realise that in my effort to not drip feed and my own need to just vent, I was a rather poor historian, and instead of being concise, I made it seem like we woke up one morning and DD had been swapped for some stranger who we didn't recognise.

Perhaps I need to start a journal!!

I just want to know that DD will be living her best life when I'm not around anymore.

This is really touching, and really sad. I'm sure you've tried your best. She is not going to stay this person forever.

I apologise in advance if what I'm about write sounds critical. Your DD sounds a little like me (and my DB) when we were teens, in some ways. I think all the talk of MH is overcomplicating this. I expect she might just have very low self esteem. Do you ever give positive reinforcements to her behaviour, when it is good? It all sounds very critical and punishment-heavy. As a previous high-achiever I wonder if she got to the point where she felt worthless regardless of her achievements, which she probably only did to make her parents happy, and so stopped trying completely. She's in stage 1 of recovery from low self esteem - she's rejecting your expectations of her. However, she hasn't got to the next level which is to find her own ambitions and standards. She'll never get there either so long as you are criticising and nagging her. She'll be stuck in phase 1 until that ends.

I might be wrong of course, but that's what it seems like to me. Your parenting style seems like a toxic mix of micromanaging- for example a curfew for an 18 year old! - and an emphasis on her perceived flaws. There is no incentive for her to improve herself, no way for her to develop self worth.

@BadSkiingMum

Thank you for answering and there's some food for thought in your answer.

I don't want her to become a long term unemployed person and although there is a system of social security here, I don't actually (personally) know of anyone who has claimed benefits. I knew of one boy that I went to school with who claimed benefits, but that was 35 or so years ago, he had to jump through hoops to get any money, and he was only allowed to have benefits for 12 months and then he had to get a job or do something, because 12 months was the maximum that someone could claim for. I'm not sure if that's still the case though. Or I may be remembering wrongly. Also, it's not really something that I would want for DD anyway. And she wouldn't be able to afford much, if anything such as clothes etc., I shouldn't think.

I agree that she needs something to occupy her time that isn't the internet but she is so apathetic about everything. She is aware that she's enormously privileged compared to other young people, but I've made it clear to her that living off the bank of mum and dad isn't a career pathway and she'll need to find something else to do and/or some other way to fund her existence.

Unfortunately because she's now over school leaving age, she only has the option of college open to her, and there is one in the town we live in that offers a course that is similar to the school certification, and applications are open. I have told her that I am happy to pay the fees as a one off. From there she can do another course that will qualify her for some uni courses but definitely not medicine, or law. There are other routes for those subjects but she would have to do a Bachelors to qualify for them and that's a long time to have to study for, as it's essentially another 3 years, but that's for her to decide. I shall be happy if she enrols in anything!

I don't think DH would agree to have no internet at home as he does love binging on his TV shows! I have discussed with him changing the WiFi password and he said he'd think about it. He was quite tired when he got back from work but we're both off together tomorrow so I'll have a proper talk with him, and show him this thread.

@muggart

I know when I'm venting it must seem as if I'm a hypercritical, nagging, helicopter parent, when in fact I'm not at all.

Many years ago, I read a poem about how children learn to communicate and one line has always stuck with me:

If you criticise a child, they will only ever be critical.

My dad (he who says we should just let DD relax!), was always critical and if I didn't get 100%, I clearly hadn't tried my best! I have deliberately gone out of my way to not be like him! With any of the DC.

So yes, whilst I will remind her to do things, such as feeding the cats, when she doesn't do it, because she "needs a minute", I'll do it myself. The problems arise when I'm not home and she's the only one at home. We've had situations where I've called her at around 9am to remind her to feed the cats and she'll say she will and then I'll call again in the evening to remind her to feed them, then I'll get home and they haven't been fed! And she will day she forgot! 5/7 days, I'll empty the dishwasher when I get home or DH will have emptied because, she forgot. And it isn't really that she forgets these things but that she's too engrossed in watching her streamers or online gaming or chatting to her friends. She has one friend that's she's very close too, and they have spent from when they wake up, to when they go to sleep, on the phone with each other! And I'll tell her to come and get some lunch or dinner and she'll say that she can't because her phone's on charge and she would have to hang up!

As for having a curfew, there isn't anything to do past 9pm except get in to trouble, so of she's going out for the evening, 9pm is fine. It's different if she's going to a friend's house or to a party, but just going "out" to drive around or whatever, yes, I would like her to be home by 9pm and this is when her friends have to be home anyway, so what would she do by herself, when nothing is open and her friends have had to be home?

Also, I don't think there is a child alive who has been more cherished than my DD, and she freely admits that. The worst that I have ever said is about the mould! I was very annoyed about that. Even when she refuses to do things, I don't shout or criticise, since that changes nothing. I can't force her to do things, I would just like her to do those few jobs without constantly saying that she forgot.

My older DC always say that I'm too soft on her, maybe I am.

Hello, @AIBUmum2023.
Thanks for your response - it can sometimes feel like posting into the wind on here when you write a long post and don’t get anything back! Anyway…

I think it is sometimes helpful to imagine the non-digital equivalent of online behaviours, especially when thinking about children and young people.

For example, would teenagers in the nineties have been allowed to print out photos of themselves, write their name and a means of being contacted on them and post them through strangers’ front doors? No, because that would have been seen as bizarrely risky. But somehow it’s ok to do the equivalent on social media.

The idea of your DD spending the entire day on the landline phone to a friend is bonkers. Utterly absurd. Is it just because the calls are free that it’s seen as ok? When did this change happen? Even the most phone-crazy teen would have been made to hang up eventually.

I am all for technology, but how have we, as a society, got into this state?

I honestly think that cold-turkey on the internet is the only way for your DD to break this pattern. Your DH can buy some DVD box sets and a cheap DVD player!

@BadSkiingMum

The time difference makes it quite hard sometimes as I’m quite a bit ahead of the UK, but I try to reply to all posts, unless it’s something I’ve already posted about.

I definitely agree with you about the social media aspect of technology and although I think some of the technological advances have been excellent, especially in healthcare and medicine, online grooming and even catfishing proves that technology isn’t always wonderful.

The all day and half the night phone marathons are on mobile phones. I’ve told her in the past that they should just meet up, but apparently it’s better when they can stay at home instead! I do sometimes think that because there’s a lot of nature/beach stuff to do around here, but not much in the way of nightclubs (a grand total of 0), and just some pubs/bars which are full of some unsavoury people, internet and the phone are what teens use to entertain themselves. But this is a guess really. For perspective, we’ve only had Sunday opening for about 10 years, so we’re not setting the world on fire in terms of things to occupy people’s minds! The city isn’t too far, and there’s museums, galleries, cinemas etc., there but the kids don’t seem to want to go there regularly for evenings out, so they stay local and go for meals, etc. Possibly because none of them have much money!

We have DVD box sets and a player, although I can’t remember the last time that we watched a DVD! Maybe it’s time to dust off the Vicar of Dibley 🙂

@AIBUmum2023 how are things for you now - have you had any further discussions / reflections with your DH and DD about a way forward ?

@Gloriously

Rather strangely, since I posted, she has been better. I'm still having to prompt and remind, but she's generally been doing things when she's been asked.

I did talk to her about disconnecting more from the internet and the phone, and did remind her that me paying for these things for her are a privilege, not a right. She said that she couldn't live without internet and phone (!!!) and I said that we managed, especially because she's not engaged in study or looking for work, and then last night she helped me with the pantry, and she's been much better today as well. Mind you, yesterday I had to pay her counselling bill (175) and on Monday, she has her ED assessment (110), so it might be that's why she's being so helpful - I hate myself for being so suspicious but in the past, she has said things like "I love you mum, can I have xx amount of money for xyz thing", and I feel that she says the I love you bit, for the money, whereas I would prefer a more straightforward "mum, can I have money for xyz". I make sure she doesn't go without, her travel card is automatically topped up out of my bank and I've offered to buy her a car as well.

I think I just feel a bit, I don't know, unappreciated? We've given her things, like private education that her older siblings didn't have. Partly because when starting out, we didn't have heaps of money and her and her brother who is one year older came along later on, so the older siblings were in secondary school. I don't expect her to bow down every time she sees me or anything, but I don't think asking for a little housework help is a big thing. Although today, she did a load of laundry, but forgot the litter trays, even though one is actually in the laundry room! I've tried to prompt her to put reminders on her phone, but she doesn't want to, for whatever reason.

Also, it's like she's got this ED assessment coming up, but she's been eating heaps (I am monitoring to make sure she's not sneaking to her bathroom to purge), and I'm wondering if that's because I'm just making sure to get her food that I know she'll eat. I don't want to mention it to her because she's doing really well with the eating.

Thank you for checking in. It means a lot 🌺