To not pay school attendance fine?

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And what happens if I don’t. There is no statutory right to appeal.

i submitted an ‘exceptional leave request’ first week of September, requesting 5 days leave for my 6YO and 8YO daughters. We are in India this week participating in Diwali and the religious functions that lead up to it. It’s not the same in our area the U.K. and we wanted the kids to fully experience their cultural traditions at an age where they wouldn’t miss too much at school, with family and friends that live in India.

the head was meant to respond to let us know whether or not the absence would be authorised and give reasons. We didn’t hear anything and then chased up a few weeks before half term, but no response.

today we got the standard ‘why have your kids not in school email’, which I responded to and finally got confirmation that the absence has not been agreed and so will be unauthorised. No reason given other than they see it as a family holiday.

in our area it’s an automatic fine by the LA if we take kids out for 5 days. I’m a bit annoyed at the lack of communication from the school. We can’t control that Diwali is in term time, it’s only 5 days and this is really important to us as a family.

what would happen if I don’t pay the fines (it’s more the principle that I don’t think we should have to).

in terms of missing education - kids attendance is 100% otherwise and both are greater depth so I do think this week in India is a better experience for them than any impact of missing 5 days of primary school.

Doesn't Diwali ever fall in half term, at least partly? Could you not have gone in one of those years? (I appreciate we are only 2 years out of a pandemic but I also know the date is set years in advance).

School is not optional, it is legally mandatory.

Now, you can choose to go against that, but there are consequences - like there would be if you went against anything that was legally and lawfully mandatory.

You're experiencing those consequences now. Please don't be so entitled to think they shouldn't apply to you. Of course they should.

It is as simple as that.

It makes a difference if the school didn’t follow the correct processes within a reasonable timescale and I’d be arguing that point in court. I’m also a bit dubious about the lack of a proper appeals process. How can that be legal?

Although luckily, I live in Ireland so I don’t have to worry about such petty drivel. 😂

For those saying it’s next week, it’s not. The 5 days start on Friday 10th with the main day Sunday 12th. We come back on Monday, so miss the last 2 days. We’ve been here for half term and tagged on an extra 5 days hence the timing. There are various religious / fasting days leading up to Friday that we’ve observed and it’s much more meaningful to do this as an extended family.

You have done something which you know results in a fine and now you don't want to pay it?

That's just plain stupid. Pay the fine and move on, what makes you so special?

Will that be your view if they go on to break the law when they're older?

Because like it or not, that's what this is, breaking the law.

"I'll pull out my own eyeball before I let an organisation dictate judge or reprimand what my children can or can't do"

Honestly the entitlement of people on here is astonishing.

The school can authorise one day with an R code for Religious observance. But you didn't have to go abroad to do so and Diwali is on Sunday which is a non school day so the chances of them agreeing to do that are minimal tbh

Just pay the fine and think of it as part of a cost of going away.

I think you would win an appeal if you do choose to go down that route. You asked the headteacher for permission and he didn’t respond which was on him. You took them anyway on religious grounds so not just for a jolly. They’re only small so not hampering GCSEs or anything serious. Also can’t see how LA can automatically fine for 5 days, how about kids who are seriously ill for that long with a virus? Nuts.

I wouldn’t pay. Not a fucking chance.

It shouldn’t be ‘one size fits all’, absences are nuanced and slapping cash fines on everything, especially when you tried and tried to chase the Head, is absurd.

Policy for which religious festivals are allowed as authorised absences is set locally - you need to check the rules for your local authority. Usually, they are only authorised if religious observances require the pupil to attend services during the school day or there are religious obligations that mean they cannot travel or work on that day.

"You took them anyway on religious grounds so not just for a jolly. "

Debatable. OP could easily have celebrated Diwali here. She didn't want to, she wanted to be amongst family abroad, perfectly fine, but lets not get carried away about what this actually was.

Very poor form of the school not to reply to your original email. It's wouldn't be the head, it'd be the staff member in charge of absences and attendance so someone has dropped the ball.
That being said if your school requests the LA to find they need to submit all evidence of your request and their refusal so without that you may not get fined.
I know LAs differ but in ours the fine is only issued if the school fills out all the forms and submits them with email correspondence between parents and school to the council.
Let's hope they just don't request it as they failed to reply to you

Yes because I'm sure the head has nothing better to do than field unauthorised absence requests.

In the absence of school advice then OP should have looked to LA guidance, which states she would receive a fine, which she did.

Honestly that this is even a debate baffles me.

You broke the rules so you have to accept the consequences. Just cough up and stop whinging. It might not be your fault that Diwali is in school time but it’s also not the school’s fault. Will you do it again next year?

5 days unauthorised

illnesses are authorised so no fines for those

@bobby81 would the fact the school didn't respond as per procedure in order to make it clear that the absence was unauthorised mean there was an error that would mean it wouldn't go to court?

They also have to make the absence policy clear (my school send out a group email), have they done this OP?

Best bet probably to read through your local authority policy and see if there's any errors OP. It won't be the school who fines but the local authority.

My school are clear they will refer for fines and followed absence procedures and yet so far haven't had a fine (absence was 5 months ago)

It's an authorised absence request. It's only if it isn't granted that it becomes unauthorised.

Schools set their own policy as to who deals with the request. If that isn't the oh so important academy head on six figures then it should be another member of staff.

Obviously there won't be a requirement for the parent to be expressly told in advance that the absence isn't authorised, as that would prevent fines being issued if authorisation hasn't been sought.

That is not obvious in the slightest @CasperGutman. It would be very simple to draft a provision that covered failure to request separately.

Ok - my mistake. An authorised absence request.

😩

It sounds like an amazing experience and one which your kids will get an enormous amount from. But if you can afford to take your family to India, you can also afford the fine.

The fines are not about your lovely, well attending children who are probably doing just fine at school and will benefit from your support and input their whole life. They are about the children who have far less family support, no culture of attainment, and statistically do far worse if they are not in school.

I'm not sure that fining parents works, is fair or achieves what it sets out to do. After the pandemic school closures, it does feel like pissing in the wind. But it has been brought in for a very specific reason. School attendance is absolutely crucial for disadvantaged kids. The government can't say - OK lovely middle class parents, you can take your child out of school for an improving experience, but this other family will be fined because they keep their child off because they can't be bothered. So they have to say "no exceptions".

Perhaps think of it as your tiny contribution to making the world a fairer place ? You're being fined in the hope that all kids will get more time in school.

@Graspingnettles it's definitely worth OP raising that with the LA (in a very calm & reasonable way!) but I don't think it's enough to prevent a prosecution if I'm honest.
You're right that the school must make their attendance policy available (online, in a newsletter etc.) and if OP is serious about not paying the fine then they should go through the policy with a fine tooth comb. However some of these policies are pretty basic/vague.
For what it's worth my advice would always be to pay the fine.

No judgement on taking your DC to celebrate Diwali in India in non-important school years. I bet DC will have a wonderful time and experience it in a completely different culture which they will hopefully remember for the rest of their lives.

Your council will probably have published their criteria on school absence and their fines accordingly. These fines should have been factored into the cost of your trip.

Sorry OP I think you need to pay up.

I don't agree with the fines or the fact that schools seem to think they have more power and responisibility for our children than parents do, but at the same time I also don't see why this situation should be any different than someone taking their kids on holiday. There should not be religious or cultural exemptions - why should this get special treatment?

It’s a really difficult one because Diwali is always going to be at a time when kids are at school and so they are unable to celebrate religious festivals like we do for Christmas so I can see your point. However, it is the rules I’m afraid that if you take your child out of school during term time then you have to pay a fine. As other posters have said, you could have just celebrated it over here… and after school. Yes it’s not the same but if you choose to send your children to an English school then the law applies. I would just pay it so save any further escalation. Your children will still get the experience you wanted them to have, just that you have decided to take them out of school and it is made very clear that any unauthorised absence will result in a fine. Either that or just let them wait until they leave school if you don’t want to pay the fine. The cultures and traditions will be there regardless of their age.

Few things to factor in are

• whether you can afford to pay it
• whether you want to take a moral stand

Do NOT factor in - whether you think you should take a moral stand, or whether you think you should pay it. School haven't authorised the absence, and going by lots of responses here it's probable the LA would agree with the school's decision too. If you can't afford to pay it, or if you think you should culturally challenge the decision for other families then fight it.

You could ask your MP for support.

Personally I was asked to pay a fine for a school absence that was morally abhorrent but at the time I decided to pay it for convenience rather than argue it. I could have fought it - but I could afford to pay it and it wasn't the right place to spend my energy.