To not pay school attendance fine?

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And what happens if I don’t. There is no statutory right to appeal.

i submitted an ‘exceptional leave request’ first week of September, requesting 5 days leave for my 6YO and 8YO daughters. We are in India this week participating in Diwali and the religious functions that lead up to it. It’s not the same in our area the U.K. and we wanted the kids to fully experience their cultural traditions at an age where they wouldn’t miss too much at school, with family and friends that live in India.

the head was meant to respond to let us know whether or not the absence would be authorised and give reasons. We didn’t hear anything and then chased up a few weeks before half term, but no response.

today we got the standard ‘why have your kids not in school email’, which I responded to and finally got confirmation that the absence has not been agreed and so will be unauthorised. No reason given other than they see it as a family holiday.

in our area it’s an automatic fine by the LA if we take kids out for 5 days. I’m a bit annoyed at the lack of communication from the school. We can’t control that Diwali is in term time, it’s only 5 days and this is really important to us as a family.

what would happen if I don’t pay the fines (it’s more the principle that I don’t think we should have to).

in terms of missing education - kids attendance is 100% otherwise and both are greater depth so I do think this week in India is a better experience for them than any impact of missing 5 days of primary school.

We got fined last year. I paid mine, my husband didn't and nothing happened to him. I looked into how many people were actually prosecuted in my area and the numbers were tiny so my husband wasn't worried and didn't pay his fine.

If you choose not to pay, the fine will increase and you will most likely be taken to court by LA, which could mean further costs potentially, should you be unsuccessful in getting the fine quashed by the court.

Entirely your call, but I think if I was in your shoes I would pay up.

Note the rules for your LA re. what triggers a fine so you know in future. Ours was missing 10 sessions (so 5 days off school). So if you took them out for 8 sessions (4 days) it was unauthorised absence, but did not trigger a fine.

I'm pretty lax with taking kids out of school to enjoy experiences that fall within term time, but you're being unreasonable here and need to pay the fine.

Diwali falling in term time 'not being your fault' has no place in this argument. You live and school your children in the UK and agree to your school's term schedule. Not celebrating in the UK is your choice and that choice as consequences. It is not 'extenuating'. An example of extenuating would be a family funeral.

Yes, the school should have responded to your request on time, but, regardless, they do not agree to approve it so you just need to swallow the fine. That you don't agree with it is immaterial unfortunately.

It is not arbitrary to fine someone who went away without having received any notice that the absence had been authorised. It’s unauthorised until it’s authorised. OP is not going to argue in court that she would have stayed at home if it had not been authorised.

Are you saying that the relevant code of conduct will state that a fine cannot be levied unless the parent has been told expressly, before the absence begins, that the absence is unauthorised?

YABU. This happens in our primary school, so many Indian parents thinking it’s acceptable to take their children out of school for weeks at a time. The Head has made it clear that if it continues those children could be removed. You are allowed 1 day for religious observance and anything outside of that has to be exceptional. You’ll have to pay the fine.

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/05/11/fines-for-parents-for-taking-children-out-of-school-what-you-need-to-know/

You are better to ask in a school fines related Facebook group than here on MN.

I personally think you did the right thing in taking them as they've had an experience they'll remember for a lifetime, and their peers won't remember what they learned in primary school that particular week for the rest of their lives.

I am confident that you would win in court over this as their attendance was at 100% before the absence, but you need advice from people who know a lot about this. I'm not sure if they will advise to pay it now and challenge after, or let them attempt to prosecute as you may have a strong case to win. Also, the LA should be compliant with the law, and as far as I'm aware (don't quote me on this), the fines shouldn't be automatically applied, your children's attendance is very high, so I don't think you should have been fined. Good luck.

The penalty is doubled only after a certain period has elapsed (around here it's 28 days). There is nothing to be lost by using that time to request that the FPN is withdrawn. Although there is no statutory right to appeal, you can request that the notice is withdrawn and non-compliance with the relevant processes in the run-up to issuing the notice is one of the reasons a school can request the local authority withdraws the notice.

I don't know the answer OP but just wanted to say that I think it's utterly ridiculous. Seriously what are your kids going to remember more and what are they going to get more from? An amazing week celebrating Diwali in India or...what. Some basic maths and English?

I was taken out of school multiple times by my parents to travel around Europe and North Africa (new age traveller family) and the memories I have shaped me as a person. This is part of the reason all my siblings have applied for and obtained traveller/circus status so they can legally take their kids out.

Lesson: lie and say they were sick.

You will have to pay the fine as you told the school you were planning to taken them out of school. Schools have lost the ability to be flexible with school term leave. I took our kids out all the time towards end of term/start of hols for cheaper flights abroad. Reasoned all they were missing was colouring time and end of school assembly or Christmas play. I’m sure the school knew as I wasn’t the only one doing this. Would just phone up the first day and say they had norovirus or similar so had to keep them off. I hope the kids enjoy Diwali in India, what a wonderful experience for them and definitely the age to appreciate it.

You’ll have to pay the fine as attending a religious festival isn’t something that can be excluded. Your fine will double and you’ll end up in court. Whether it’s right or wrong you won’t win an appeal on it, and it will cost a lot of money

No. I'm saying that the code of conduct will (should) include a process for requesting authorisation and will (should) require that a decision will be communicated within a reasonable timescale. Obviously there won't be a requirement for the parent to be expressly told in advance that the absence isn't authorised, as that would prevent fines being issued if authorisation hasn't been sought.

OP I totally understand your point of view and we are in the same boat. We took our 2 out of school for 15 days this year because we hadnt seen my family for 5 years. Our kids are doing well at school and never missed school for non medical reasons. Obviously school didnt authorise but we went anyway knowing that there could be a fine.

We havent received any fines yet but if we do, we will just pay because its not worth the time and hassle to argue with them and potentially going to court. Its £240 in total for 2 kids, its nothing compared with the cost of the trip. We are really happy we went, the kids have improved their second language so much and have done and experienced a lot of things they wouldnt have here. They also loved spending time with their grand parents and extended family. We have no regret.

While I happen to agree with the value of some holidays from school and think the holiday industry is appalling for raising prices at times of high demand, I think yours is a grey area in some respects - obviously the cultural factors are valuable but as others have said Diwali does happen here too. I think you need to accept that the school have the right to refuse permission and have done nothing wrong. I would advise anyone doing this to factor the cost of the fine into their travels and be prepared to pay it.

Teachers don't "dictate" or put these policies in place.

I'm not sure how ling the Diwali celebration actually is, but school should authorise an absence for observance of a religious celebration. So, according to attendance guidelines, I believe the actual day of the festival should be authorised, and therefore you won't have 5 days of unauthorised leave (even if the rest is counted as holiday).

I used to work in a CofE school with a large Muslim population. Many took Eid off, and that was always accepted and recorded as religious leave.

£240 for 2 kids for 5 days! Wow that’s more than I would it would be.

I think it’s a shame as I thought religious holidays would be covered.

But as PPs have said I’d rather pay the fine as it is, than risk having to pay double.

I agree, what a stupid comment.

Op I have no advice for you but just wanted to offer a voice of support.
I believe all families should be allowed at least one holiday out of term time without risk of being fined. It really angers me it's a tax on the poor almost. If all parents could take some term time out would be more beneficial for businesses and the economy in general as holidays would be staggered throughout the year and save families a fortune. For many its too costly to have a holiday otherwise. Bollocks to "missing out on education" its easy enough for the child to take some books with them / work on tablet.
They were happy for kids to miss out on education in lockdown and leave it up to parents then.
I can't remember half the crap I needed to learn in school, and a fat lot of good most of it did me anyway, but I will remember childhood holidays for the rest of my life.
Hope you get it sorted. Happy Diwali 😊

This doesn't particularly help the OP because the date set aside for the religious observance of Diwali is Sunday 12th November this year, but attending certain religious festivals not only can be excluded but must be.

For example, this guidance (applies in Wales, but similar will presumably apply in England) says "if the parent or carer's religious organisation sets the day as a religious festival then the school must authorise the absence" (added emphasis). A list of recognised festivals is provided.

Check the school absence policy. It should specify (i) how authorisation should be requested and (ii) the timescale for receiving a response. If you complied with the policy and the school did not, then it seems unreasonable to fine you.

This. For all they know had they got back to you within the timescale you might have chosen not o go.

Whatever happens, I hope you are all having a wonderful time - it will be an important experience for your children.

@AboutYouTalk YABU. This happens in our primary school, so many Indian parents thinking it’s acceptable to take their children out of school for weeks at a time.

Racist generalisation.

The OP has specified that she has taken her children out ONCE for only 5 days, not 'weeks at a time'.

It's an awful rule that needs to go, but in your shoes I'd pay the money for an easy life and make a complaint about the failure to deal with the request.

I used to work in this area so will try to answer your question in a factual way (there's a lot of misinformation out there!)
In my LA we ALWAYS prosecuted parents who didn't pay the fines unless there was a very good reason e.g. if there was a mistake on the paperwork which would mean the court wouldn't consider the case.
I was probably involved in a couple of thousand of court cases and to my knowledge only one of them was found not guilty.
You can represent yourself or pay a lawyer to do so. If you are found guilty you will have a criminal record (this can effect some employment, insurance etc. so it's worth thinking about the consequences of that.) Plus you would have a fine from the courts (this varies depending on your circumstances), court costs, victim surcharge & legal fees if you decide to use a lawyer.
Hope that helps. I'm not sure if different LAs work slightly differently but I imagine they are all similar as it's a legal process.

This