To ask what should happen now? DD attacked by other students

[RainInNovember]

DD is 15, shes had a few issues with people, got into a few arguments, nothing major and mainly over whatsapp etc, she does seem to get involved in the drama. But a lot of her friends are similar and there are often fallings out but then friends again the next week.

I just had a message from dd at school. she said two girls who she used to be friends with have waited outside her lesson for her and followed her. once she was on her own they put a coat over her head and started punching her in the head and pulling her hair and dragging her about.

she has told school and she said the girls are currently in isolation, I have called school who said they're investigating now and will call me back shortly.

I have never dealt with anything like this before. I just want to know what to expect and how seriously they should take it.

I would hope so, but apparently hitting a librarian and pointing a (water) gun at her is ok and was told by more than a handful of mumnetters that she was over-reacting so who knows?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4928291-to-think-he-should-be-expelled-for-threatening-me-outside-school?page=1

As suspected, the school have minimised (telling the girls there’s a war on and they’re arguing), victim blamed (saying your daughter was ignoring the perpetrators thus suggesting she’s partially or fully at fault), tried to manipulate you into not going to the police (telling you that if you report you may damage the perpetrator’s chance of becoming a lawyer) and dished out the most pathetic ‘punishments’ (one day isolation, going up to two if they physically attack her again).

I mean, what the fuck is all that?!

I’d escalate it within the school, utilise their policy against them and involve the governors and local authority.

School haven't said different to me than what my daughter said. Although they made out it was more heat of the moment because dd was ignoring their questions/comments so they followed get and then attacked as she wasn't giving them the attention

So according to the school it was your dds fault. If only she had answered their questions, if only she had given them her attention then they wouldn’t have felt compelled to attack her

This comment and the war comment and being petty comment.

All add add up to staff members who need to go and work elsewhere.

I wonder if you could ask the pastoral care woman what would happen if your dd attacked her. Would your dd get a days suspension as it is her first offence

I would also point out to this woman that she is hardly likely to complain further as there is a war going on and it would be petty to do so.

It’s knowing what’s going on between the girls! Schools are not courts. They do and can make judgements on behaviour they see. Don’t forget that in a school, disruptive back chat, talking inappropriately, not following instructions and arguing are all grounds for discipline and suspension. Not the same as the general public so it’s best not to confuse the two. If constant arguing and falling out are a feature in class, all these girls could have been suspended should it be intrusive enough.

What an awful school.

I mean, blaming someone for being hit. What rubbish. I don't get hit someone if they ignore me or don't answer my questions.

This sounds a ghastly school

My child's school brushes assaults under the carpet all the fucking time.

What is it otherwise like?

This makes me furious.

As others have suggested, you need to write to the school and ask them to outline the safeguarding measures that they have put in place in order to ensure that your daughter is not attacked again.

You might also ask whether they have put in place a risk assessment for each of the attackers. (They'll probably refuse to answer that one for reasons of 'confidentiality' but it lets them know that you have an idea of how schools are supposed to be run.)

I'd further suggest that you send any such correspondence via registered post rather than email and copy in the LA and/or Board of Governors as appropriate. (In Scotland, I'd advise a parent to copy in the Director of Education for the LA.)

The fact Ur DD told the school and the girls were isolated during an investigation.... Makes me a little at ease that the school are actually doing something.

Hindsight is a marvellous thing, I know, so I'm probably stating the obvious here, for which I apologise. I'm not a parent, but a retired Head of Department/Faculty Head (Scotland).

NEVER let a family member go into a meeting where you know that they're going to be outnumbered by the miscreant and his family. If you're told that the miscreant is going to be accompanied, then insist that your child is also accompanied.

has the op clarified what her daughter wants to do re the police?

From now on, make sure that everything is in writing.

@WearyAuldWumman DH accompanied DS to all the meetings so he was never outnumbered. The reason we allowed it for this one particular boy is that he'd been in an accident the previous year resulting in a serious head injury and some changes to his behaviour. We thought the boy and his father were going to apologise but explain the changes to his son as a mitigating factor (which we would have had some sympathy for) but that wasn't the case.

I'm glad he was there.

Yes, I get it - you're decent and you were being kind. It just never occurred to you that the other parents weren't. I'm sorry that your son went through that.

You do tend to find that pupils who behave violently have parents who will defend them no matter what they do. I've seen it all too often. Occasionally, there's a surprise and an apology is forthcoming - doesn't happen very often, though.

I can think of one instance where a father apologised to me after his son was aggressive towards me. I can also think of one instance where a mother apologised after her son was aggressive towards another boy (and the other boy got the better of him). The only apologies that I can think of in a career that lasted 38 years.

Unbelievably, in the latter case the school wanted to give the victim a temporary exclusion for the crime of defeating his attacker. The exclusion was only prevented because the bully's mother said that she was glad that someone had finally put her son in his his place.

I assume I was wrong and the school is trying to brush it aside?

It wouldn't be an instant PE for attacking a teacher.
A teacher would in some cases be lucky to get this. In most cases they will get this, in some cases nothing at all happens.
Its one of the reasons that so many teachers are leaving,

Depends on the severity of the attack. The same with Dc. If a child is likely to endanger others it’s PE for a first offence. Not often used but it is occasionally. Usually Dc need a special school or pru.

There was a thread not long ago on that subject. On it were plenty of accounts from teachers of being assaulted (in at least one case while pregnant) with little in the way of consequences for the offender. One poster's husband had to intervene before the head took matters seriously (she still has no idea what he threatened the head with, presumably legal action).

Now you are changing your narrative.
It would take something extremely severe for a pupil to get PE for attacking a teacher, as many teachers on here have said.

A child would not be PE for attacking a teacher. There is such naivety about what schools are like amongst parents there truly is.

Are you seriously saying that if a child glassed a teacher in the face - they wouldn’t be permanently excluded?

@Giantgold They would be. Posters are wrong. ABH or GBH results in PE. It would of course be a police matter. Many posters see lower level violence (not acceptable of course) but haven’t seen anything worse. It is actually quite rare. Numerous less violent attacks can lead to PE too. Several like the one described by the op would.

The behaviour policies of schools clearly set out what type of behaviour could be PE and good leadership in schools follows it. Of course many schools simply don’t have such poorly behaved Dc. Most dc who are PE have Sen. It’s true ofsted and LAs don’t like to see lots of exclusions but the vast majority of schools manage them sensibly. There’s also a presumption that looked after Dc are not excluded but heads have a duty to keep pupils and staff safe. If dc are clearly compromising safety, a head has the 100% right to PE. Dc also know when a head is weak and staff do too.

Most teachers don’t leave due to violence. Most leave because other jobs are seen as easier for the money!

I have spoken to the deputy head and they were very helpful. Explained that they are disgusted and sickened by what happened and it was in no way justified and was an assault. He said the behaviour contract is quite strict, the girls aren't allowed to even speak about the incident and they are to be brought into school and collected by their parents for the time being. He reassured me there will be more sanctions if any of these things aren't followed and there Will be support for dd.
There have been meetings yesterday between staff members discussing this.
We have also put in a complaint about the pastoral care staff member.

Dd stayed home yesterday. This morning she 'missed her bus' so needs to be taken in late. The head of year will be talking to her today and reassuring her they are putting support in place to make sure she feels safe

In the meantime several girls in dds year have come forward to dd and sent her screen shots that these girls have send, bullying other people and taking pics of random girls and commenting on their appearance so dd is going to take those to the head of year when he speaks to her

Thanks all for your help, I feel better for speaking to a higher up staff member and he also reassured me that they have an excellent reputation for when these things happen, there isn't a second incident

Well done and carry on making a fuss. The school will act when there is something on the line for them, ie reputation. That is often how it is if people are not prepared to lead.

Make sure you get your complaints in writing and outcomes also in writing. Nice meetings with parents are cheap. I would give them quite a bit of difficulty about "studying law" as some sort of excuse.