To ask what should happen now? DD attacked by other students

[RainInNovember]

DD is 15, shes had a few issues with people, got into a few arguments, nothing major and mainly over whatsapp etc, she does seem to get involved in the drama. But a lot of her friends are similar and there are often fallings out but then friends again the next week.

I just had a message from dd at school. she said two girls who she used to be friends with have waited outside her lesson for her and followed her. once she was on her own they put a coat over her head and started punching her in the head and pulling her hair and dragging her about.

she has told school and she said the girls are currently in isolation, I have called school who said they're investigating now and will call me back shortly.

I have never dealt with anything like this before. I just want to know what to expect and how seriously they should take it.

Victim blaming as it's finest.

I’m surprised that an attack like this hasn’t resulted in permanent exclusions for the girls who attacked your dd.
I work in a PRU and we have had pupils come to us for lesser attacks than this.

Why are the police's hands tied?

There are different contexts to incidents for instance i recently read a thread where a year 10 girl had thumped a year 8 boy at school. This because the boy had pulled the pants down of the year 10 girls year 7 SEN brother. This appears to be a different matter and the context of the incident should determine the consequences. It does not surprise me the Police have no interest.

It still could be a permanent exclusion. Evidence has to be gathered.

@Alohapotato Have you read the OP’s posts? I guess not. There’s always room for navigating around “friends” and not continually arguing. It’s not blaming Dc it’s a suggestion on how you might sensibly go forward.

Also none of you know what went on before the attack. Maybe nothing but maybe something? You don’t know. Is the DD a bully? You don’t know that either. Hopefully not but it’s not always black and white!

@RainInNovember I'm sorry this has happened to your DD but unfortunately we have experience of this as DS was assaulted at school (sixth form) just before Christmas last year by four boys. DS left the school building immediately after the assault so we collected him, took him home then we decided to go back to school to talk to someone in person. DS also knew that some of the attack had been filmed. In our case both school and the police acted perfectly so this is what I think worked well and what you should expect for your DD.

School
Spoke to Pastoral Lead who immediately retrieved the footage and ensured it was deleted.
The four boys were immediately suspended pending investigation.
The school called the police themselves and reported the assault.
Head of Sixth Form kept us updated at all times.
Agreed absence from school for DS whilst investigation was happening.
CCTV retrieved from corridors.
Witness statements taken.
Four boys suspended till end of term.
Meeting with school to discuss progress to date and reintegrate DS back into school before end of term.
After Christmas holidays, each boy was interviewed by school with their parent.
Suspended for a further week and had to sign a behaviour contract. If they didn't stick to contract they would be out of sixth form.
Restorative justice meeting for DS with each boy.
Assembly for whole of sixth form on the bystander effect (lots of DCs watched but didn't intervene).

Police
Police called us and as a priority visited within an hour.
Took details of assault and told DS his options (to prosecute or not). Gave us a crime number and contact details.
Visited school for video of assault.
Called us several times over Christmas to help DS decide what to do.
DS didn't want to prosecute so police visited each boy at home and warned them what could have happened and what would happen if they assaulted someone again.

We also had a call from social services offering support if we needed it (we didn't).

This is what you should expect from both the school and police although being sixth form for us rather than in the lower school gave the school a few more options. We were told that a number of the leadership team wanted to expel. Fortunately for us, 3 out of the 4 boys have now gone.

Also this happened on school premises and the police usually expect the school to deal with it. As they have said. The school should after thorough investigation.

This is such bad advice I don’t even know where to start.

Their hands are tied by who? They are not dictated to by the school as to what they can and can’t investigate. It’s not up to the school. Explicitly tell them that you want the police to take action against the girls that assaulted your child (if that is what you want).

It is extremely unlikely that a student will be permanently excluded for a single physical incident. The bar for permanent exclusion is very high. The school will need to use their behaviour policy which will likely include fixed term exclusions of varying lengths and / or isolation. The police are also unlikely to get involved in this kind of incident as the OP has discovered.

@TattiePants what an amazing response.

Those girls should be suspended for much longer than a day. It’s just a joke, what the school have offered.

OP I’d urgently get in touch with your MP also and ask what further measures can be taken legally by the school.

Also, I’d consider keeping your DD off school once the bullies return and say the school is unsafe. They aren’t following safe guarding because the girls haven’t been disciplined properly and could do it again.

Id also be asking the head what the next punishment will be if the girls do it again.

Id say to the head you are considering a complaint to the local council and ofsted because the action taken is meaningless and won’t be enough of a deterrent.

I absolutely hate the policy of not being able to expel, some kids are rotten through and need to go elsewhere. They screw up kids’ lives and it’s grossly unfair they get to stick around, no matter how sickening they are.

It’s successive governments saving money by not having separate units for these kids. They instead just fuck everyone up. Save money but instead it ends up spent on cahms because there’s so much mental health problems caused by the terrible environment that is some secondary schools.

When following through with the school, this will support your questioning and requests for action, regarding school policy. Par 156

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1181955/Keeping_children_safe_in_education_2023.pdf

No school has a policy of not excluding. They should follow their policies. What’s the whole story here? I’m wondering about the extent of what’s been going on.

They're not. It's a choice.

The school hasn’t had time to investigate this properly. So it’s hasty in its decisions. Dc can be permanently excluded for a first offence if it’s bad enough. He’s this incident been over exaggerated? We don’t know that either. Witnesses? What did they say?

I really don't understand this. Why is a criminal assault any less criminal just because it takes place on school premises?

Given the choice between attending a school that brushed poor behaviour under the carpet and one that called the police and was in the press for doing so, I know which I'd rather attend.

Always be suspicious of a school with a perfect reputation. Ask why.

What exactly did you ask the police? Did you tell them your daughter was assaulted at school, there are multiple witnesses and you want to press charges for assault or did you just ask them what to do in this situation.

Where I live (not UK) the criminal code definition of assault is application (or threatened application) of force without consent. It is cut and dried in this situation. I'd be arguing for aggravated circumstances as they followed her and planned the attack. I would not allow the police to brush me off and I'd be pushing for both assaulters to be formally charged. If you don't stand up for your daughter, no one will.

As for one wanting to study law, I'd suggest she has neither the aptitude nor intelligence to do so.

After school confirmed whether they’ve checked for phone footage? It seems like they’ve made a very quick decision on all of this.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia I totally agree. There's a very popular secondary school in my borough which claims to have no bullying. I didn't even consider applying for a nano second!

In most cases, Police Scotland will not deal with someone under the age of 16, since those under the age of 16 are normally passed to the Children's Panel, rather than the courts.

My former school had a case where a teacher was punched by a 15 yr old boy. His parents tried to have the teacher charged, because the teacher put out a hand to stop the second punch.

The boy wasn't charged for anything until he turned 16 and was caught breaking into cars.

@k1233
We do not “press charges” in the uk. That’s tv speak. The police have to gather evidence. If they believe they have sufficient for a criminal prosecution to go ahead and witnesses willing to give evidence in court, they can go to the Crown Prosecution Service to see if they agree. If they don’t, no court case. CPS consider the evidence, the chance of success in court and whether going to court is in the public interest. Many school cases won’t meet the public interest threshold. There can be private prosecutions if you have deep pockets.

That doesn’t make sense

Did your daughter not want to report it?

How's your daughter feeling this morning? It sounds very traumatic.

As well as the punishments, you need to ask the school to outline what steps they will take to ensure these girls will not be able to re-victimise your daughter

Also agree with re-engaging with the police and saying you wish to pursue an investigation into an assault that occured.

There are a lot of other options available to the police. Paying a visit to warn, cautions. No one thinks that this would land up in court.