To ask what should happen now? DD attacked by other students

[RainInNovember]

DD is 15, shes had a few issues with people, got into a few arguments, nothing major and mainly over whatsapp etc, she does seem to get involved in the drama. But a lot of her friends are similar and there are often fallings out but then friends again the next week.

I just had a message from dd at school. she said two girls who she used to be friends with have waited outside her lesson for her and followed her. once she was on her own they put a coat over her head and started punching her in the head and pulling her hair and dragging her about.

she has told school and she said the girls are currently in isolation, I have called school who said they're investigating now and will call me back shortly.

I have never dealt with anything like this before. I just want to know what to expect and how seriously they should take it.

i was horribly sexually assaulted in the middle of class. He only got a 3 day suspension 🙄. Teachers did nothing.

I find it quite disturbing that obviously a very academically able girl, wants to throw a cloth round another girl and punch her repeatedly. Obviously the academically able girl has got some very serious anger management issues that should immediately disbar her, from even starting a Law Degree. My father was a Criminal lawyer and students like her get found out very quickly.

Is the school a Selective one because i think that makes it potentially easier to permanently exclude. In my experience of having an ex grammar school deputy head mother and two teacher daughters selective schools will Expel. This is evidenced in the different approaches DD1s grammar school takes to serious incidents of bullying, and the bully is as much a victim as the target of DD2s school. That school would likely have both kids shaking hands and in the name of equality both would be given a 30 minute lunchtime detention !

Coat not cloth over her head is a despicable and physical violent act.

just had a acall from the police . it sounded like their hands are tied really but she said to tell school that i wanted positive action taking and that i will escate to the education authority. she sounded sympathetic but like they wont take it further

Governor appeal panel is for parents of the punished pupil and the panel considers whether or not the proper procedure was followed (usually following a permanent exclusion). They can decide that it was correctly followed and uphold the head's decision OR that it was incorrectly followed and overrule the decision. They cannot make a decision to impose a different punishment.

The police were called by school in my daughter's case. I hope your daughter is ok. Some upping girls are just awful an bf I speak from experience, my daughter moved to a boys school for sixth form to get away from them!

You absolutely need to involve the police. Even the best school is limited in their ability to act, and have reputation high on their own agenda. Your child is the victim of a crime.

From experience not much, 3 day expulsion my daughters attacker got. Police didn't do much though it was on film, cps didn't want to take it further

That is NOT a criminal punishment.

If you followed and attacked someone at work do you honestly think you would only get suspended of fired?

No you would get a criminal record to reflect the seriousness of your anti social beavior.

I'm not surprised but I am appalled. I've heard of stories like this over and over again. A parent attacked a 13 year old dc at our school and faced no action.

Oh that’s rubbish but these days not surprising

Sounds like the school is more interested in their uni stats than student welfare (do schools get measured on the types of degree their students go into? I wonder if that’s another reason for throwing the law thing at you)

Escalate as far as you can

Re the police. Go back...You were being soft soaped.. Are they saying they don't think a crime has been committed or that they don't wish to investigate a crime? Don't take b then at their word that they can't do anything (they were implying it.... It's not a legal position, just lots of hassle for them)

Frankly, the police are doing what thry usually do and refusing to act because it's "a school matter".

They can tell you to tell the wchool you want "positive action" all they like but the headteacher won't - I can guarantee - do any more than they've done.

"Escalating" it to the governing body will not result in a more serious punishment, because the GB has no power to direct the head to do this.

@Theresit ~ It was my understanding that the age of criminal responsibility is 12 years old in Scotland, has this changed?

Secondary HOY here, I’m sorry to say an FTE is an example of a high level sanction. A permanent exclusion would be extremely unlikely and the school would need the bully’s parents permission for a managed move (it’s voluntary). To do a permanent exclusion schools need to put together a pack of evidence to prove it’s justified (eg if the pupil is vulnerable or if other support could/should have been offered first then the exclusion can be appealed and overturned) if a schools exclusion is overturned the school get a massive fine.

there is a massive movement pushing for ‘no more exclusions’ https://www.sec-ed.co.uk/content/news/ending-the-exclusions-culture/ which mean more exclusions are being overturned. School have nothing to gain by reducing punishments but there’s a limit to what we CAN do.

In my experience the only children who are getting permanent exclusions in the Surrey climate are those that have weapons/drugs to school or have hospitalised another child.

To be clear I am pro-exclusion as I believe that victims should be protected, but thought you would appreciate how things are for pastoral staff atm

hugs to your girl OP

Go to the police station and report it as an assault. Tell them you do NOT want the school to deal with it that it was an assault and you want it dealt with as such.

this is what they do - between the school and the police they try to deal with it outside the normal channels because it's kids. Don't let them away with it.

How would that person know they want to study law? Are they their career advisor.

Someone, either the student or the parent, has thought - shit, this could go on their record. I had better say they want to study law and hope that works!

IME, bullying only gets dealt with if the parent(s) of the child being bullied goes absolutely ape shit. I've seen so many schools brush over and minimise it, and the only time I've seen them do anything is when their child picked on the wrong kid, who has parents who kick up a massive stink.

When I was a DC, I lived in a really rough area. I'm talking where the girls beat up the blokes. My siblings and I got bullied a few times. I remember one older girl (about 18) saying she was going to kill me (I was 16), and believe me, I thought she would at least put me in hospital, and I was terrified. I remember running home and crying and my dad just sat there and said nothing.

The next morning was a Sat and my dad came back about 10am and said to me, "don't worry, she won't bother you again". He had spoken to my friends, and found out where she lived. He went round to her house and asked to speak to the dad. He told him that if his DD touched one hair on my head, he would be round his house immediately and take it out on him with a baseball bat. Apparently she was sitting there listening with her 2 friends, who were also going to join in killing me. Apparently her dad crapped himself and her parents went mad at her and she never looked at me again, and she was supposed to be the hardest person in our town. It got round that my dad was B'stard hard and that he was in some sort of mob, and that I was his little princess and he was prepared to go to jail over anyone who picked on me.

Not suggesting you do this, as it would now be illegal to threaten someone. My DC have been bullied a few times, and on both occasions it wasn't dealt with so I went nuts and I just wouldn't back down or let it go and it was dealt with and they were not picked on again.

That’s appalling that the police aren’t doing much. Were you clear to them that the punches were to a child’s head? A school fight with punches to the torso, is one thing, but a blow to the head can kill.

I would keep hassling the police about it and put in a formal complaint to the police if the girl isn’t prosecuted. If she’s punching children in the head while at school she may end up killing someone as an adult.

Don’t take seriously the school saying “but she wants to study law”…

1. That isn’t your problem.
2. There is zero chance of a girl this stupid passing law college exams.
3. Even if the girl did somehow pass, a person with this few ethics being a lawyer would be a very bad thing for society.

Personally my child wouldn’t go back to that school, but I know that is complicated.

This is good advice. She will be full of adrenaline and shocked after that.

OP how awful.
I'd be inclined to call back and say you're not happy with the outcome so far and can they explain to you why their hands are tied.

Your DD has been assaulted and at the very least, irrelevant of where that assault happened you expect the police to visit the girls homes and speak to them.

In incidents like this I'd have thought that the police would be part of the solution and want to nip this kind of behaviour in the bud, a short sharp talking to could be the difference between these girls continuing their behaviour or changing their attitudes and becoming decent, for want of a better word, young girls.

The police won’t be interested. It’s considered a school matter. No lasting injury so not ABH or GBH. ABH must be more than a transient hurt. The police should be taking this up but they won’t as the op has found. If assaulting another pupil is grounds for permanent exclusion then this is what the girls are facing. What they study or want to study is besides the point. Even with a criminal conviction, you can be a solicitor. Each case is reviewed. Exclusion from school doesn’t disbar anyone. Certainly not from going to uni.

Yes I would put in a formal complaint re the police response that is shocking.

A thoroughly depressing thread about the state of schools and the utterly dreadful behaviour in them.

Sympathetic? Apathetic more like. Sounds like whoever you spoke to was doing their best to fob you off and it’s working.

The police have a duty to investigate when a violent crime has been committed. You need to push back harder and tell them that you’re not happy with their initial response and wish to speak with a more senior officer.

This is pathetic they could at least go to the girls home and issue a verbal warning! This would maybe scare her enough to not do it again. I can’t believe they didn’t even do that at the very least!

My ds was jumped by three boys in the street at the age of 14. He wasn't badly hurt but two of the boys were charged with affray. The other was also arrested and taken to the station but not charged as it was his first contact with the police. Funny to think they could do the same thing in a school and get away with it. It's like a school uniform makes you above the law.