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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to not help Scouts…

393 replies

SecretsOfSunshine · 06/11/2023 10:54

Name changed as identifiable.

Ive caused a bit of fall out, and didn’t expect it. I’m a bit of an accidental scout leader, not the main Akela but there weekly. My children went through scouts, the youngest is aging out. I’ve always been happy enough to help, I like kids. It’s not however something I’m hugely attached to either. I stayed mainly as they were short of leaders, and I enjoy it enough when there.

A parent complained that at camp they are feeding and housing the adults, we don’t pay to attend camps and we do eat.

Group section leader agreed, apparently other local packs do charge leaders for food over the weekend.

I didn’t get funny or stroppy, but I did say I’m out for camps. I said I don’t mind giving up my time, but it was a line for me to give up my weekend and pay for the pleasure. If I ate at home (large family) my food costs no where near the cost as the difference between cooking 5/6 portions is absorbed in the weekly food bill the same. Plus the scouts tend to overbuy and spend a lot more than is really needed tbh.

Another leader has now contacted me to say how strongly they disagree with me, also that I’m jeopardising the camp as they are already short on leaders. GSL has implied if I’m not committed maybe I should leave. Parents are moaning apparently.

The more I think the more pissed off I am. Tbh I’m ready to leave anyone between the increase in behaviour issues and local politics in the district. Camps have a horrible side of severe sleep deprivation and I also sometimes lose work shifts going or family commitments.

Is it really normal to begrudge volunteers their food and board in exchange for a weekend away for £50 and amazing activities laid on? I know when I was a teacher we were also included in costs spread among the kids. With 30/40 kids it’s hardly the bulk of the bill either

OP posts:
ThereIbledit · 06/11/2023 14:17

A parent complained that at camp they are feeding and housing the adults, we don’t pay to attend camps and we do eat.
...

Parents are moaning apparently.

FFS you really are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't aren't you!

Another leader has now contacted me to say how strongly they disagree with me,

I'd tell them with sickly sweet sarcasm that it's okay, you don't mind them disagreeing with you - you're not stopping them from paying to supervise camp.

also that I’m jeopardising the camp as they are already short on leaders.

"Why do you think that is?" <head tilt, tinkly laugh> "I'm sure you will find plenty of people who agree with you who are willing to pay to take the kids to camp. If I were you I'd start by asking the parents who complained, I'm sure they'd be willing to step up."

GSL has implied if I’m not committed maybe I should leave.

"Thank you for helping me to see so clearly what I need to do. You're right, I'm not committed to Scouting at even more personal cost to myself, so I'm out. Cheerio!"

(Also: it's fucking piss poor for anybody to say to anybody in a volunteer role that they aren't committed enough. Really awful.)

Cupcakemum79 · 06/11/2023 14:18

All the other angry parents can take up the tasks instead of you then. It is a shame of course, if you enjoyed helping...

Conkersinautumn · 06/11/2023 14:20

Parents getting subsidised weekend childcare can fuck off if they think the volunteers making it possible don't deserve food. Perhaps they'd like to take their own darlings away for camps, all the activities and sort it themselves?

Thegoodbadandugly · 06/11/2023 14:21

If I were you I would stop volunteering and let the parents who moaned take over.

LostFrog · 06/11/2023 14:22

I am so cross on your behalf, you are NOT being unreasonable and please show them this thread. My son gets so much out of Scouts, I am so grateful to those who give up their time and I would hate any of them to feel this way. I am going to ask our scout leader about this to see if it really is the norm that helpers are expected to pay for the privilege of giving up their time.

Hillarious · 06/11/2023 14:24

The most valuable thing you can give the group is your time. If that's not enough for them, it really is time to move on. Disappointing, but they're now overstepping the mark on what they want from you.

My kids did amazing things with these organisations and I made by contribution back by taking on the role of group secretary for a few years. The leaders were a complete mixed bag of people, but all very kind and generous with their time and knowledge.

Some people totally get what scouts, brownies, guides etc are all about, and others just don't.

Beautiful3 · 06/11/2023 14:27

To be honest i wouldn't pay, as a volunteer. I wouldn't leave until your last child stops going. But I'd say count me out of camps.

mindutopia · 06/11/2023 14:28

Mine is in Scouts and I would gladly pay for the subsistence of all the leaders myself for the time and energy they devote to running a weekend of camp. Honestly, it's my idea of hell. No amount of money you could pay me to facilitate it (and I do a lot of camping and outdoor activities myself). The last camp they did, one of dd's friends was up most of the night with one of the leaders as he was homesick. Poor leader said he went home after and fell asleep in front of the tv at 4pm and didn't wake up til Monday morning when it was time to go to work. YANBU. It's not a hobby, it's a volunteer commitment and parents should be grateful for your time and contributions already.

Ohnoooooooo · 06/11/2023 14:39

Teachers don't pay when on school trips (and quite rightly) I am a bit gobsmacked they are expecting you to pay for being a baby sitter! Its the least the parents can do for you.

334bu · 06/11/2023 14:40

Who on earth voted that you were being unreasonable? Food is the very least they can offer their volunteers.

momtoboys · 06/11/2023 14:40

Peace out to them. Also, it is not your problem they are short leaders. Don't do it.

FSTraining · 06/11/2023 14:42

Sign of the times. We live in a mean spirited country full of freeloaders who begrudge others the reasonable "perks" that come with volunteering.

It's part of the same mindset as people who would complain if civil servants were offered free tea and coffee at work or people without children complaining about taxes spent on education, when they full well intend to draw a state pension off the incomes of those children without doing any of the hard graft of raising a family.

UsingChangeofName · 06/11/2023 14:44

I'm delighted to see the vote is 99% agreeing with you.
I presume the 1% is the parent who complained about this.

I am, however aware that overwhelmingly, in my District, Leaders do pay to go on camp / put in for their food. So the Leaders who have said it is what happens, aren't wrong.
I have argued this for 40 odd years, but I volunteer in a District where there isn't much money, and Leaders would often quietly put in £15 or so to help balance the books, even though there is no way anyone should be expected to.

As you are in a flourishing group in an affluent area then it really shouldn't come up at all. There is a difference between Leaders food and camp fees being absorbed between a troop or 25 going on camp, and a camp where there might only be 7 or 8 Scouts going, and 6 of those are on free school meals.

You would not be unreasonable at all to leave over this.
What I'd really love, is for that message to go out clearly to all the parents. That the camp is now not able to go ahead due to the fact the Group have lost Leaders due to a complaint their costs were covered, whilst they were volunteering to take the dc away for the weekend, forfeiting pay whilst doing so.
I'm sure it never will go out in comms, but I would really, really love it if it did.

Acornsoup · 06/11/2023 14:44

Sounds like you have served your time OP. Definitely time to thank them for giving you the opportunity, but now you would like to give the same opportunity to another parent.

Don't spend any more of your valuable time arguing with people OP. You can do what every you like and you don't need a reason.

skyeisthelimit · 06/11/2023 14:46

That is disgusting. I am Treasurer for our local Scout group and have had a child in Cubs in the past.

Our Leaders don't pay anything for Camp. If they weren't Leaders then the section would fold (it has once already). None of them charge mileage to get to camp (or other activities) which apparently they are allowed to do. They pay for their own uniform. They don't charge Scouts anything at all for any of the expenses that they are allowed to claim. They give up their time every week for the sessions.

Leaders give up their whole weekend to go to camp and get there early and leave later due to setup/takedown etc. My daughter went on 3 Cub Camps and had a brilliant time. There was no way that I would have gone to help as I don't do camping, so to me the Leaders are heroes.

How can any parent begrudge those Leaders the cost of their food for the weekend?

The GSL's should be sending a letter out to the parents making it clear that the food consumed by the Leaders is minimal and is provided to them FOC due to them giving up their own weekends for camp.

They should also not be making you feel bad for wanting to step back.

If they tell you again that if Camp stops it will be your fault, then tell them each and every time - no it is the parents fault for begrudging the volunteers some food while looking after their children for 48 hours. Also remind them that if any of the parents want Camp to continue then all they need to do is step forward and help and pay for their food while there

FrenchandSaunders · 06/11/2023 14:47

Shocking, I can't believe some parents. Dickheads.

I helped on a brownie weekend once many years ago, as DD was worried about going. Never again, came back absolutely shattered.

You all need a medal, giving up your time for that.

Bingsbongs · 06/11/2023 14:52

Wow that sucks and i dont think you are in the wrong..time costs money you could be chilling at home rather than entertaining other peoples kids.

I would pay extra pound towards scout leaders meals etc

caringcarer · 06/11/2023 14:54

You've given up loads of your time, including previous weekends to help them and now they can do one. Tell them you are withdrawing your volunteer services altogether but any parent that complained about you getting a few bits of food is welcome to take your place. They have a bloody cheek. I helped at Cubs for years when my Foster Son was younger because he had SN and I never got charged and many parents thanked me for giving up my time. It seems times have changed.

FrustatedAgain · 06/11/2023 14:55

Parents really have no idea what it takes to run these groups and how much time the volunteers give up, I don’t know if it’s an entitled attitude they all have. I bet none of the complainers are ready to step in and volunteer. I’d leave.
before long there will be no scouts brownieS youth groups and ptas due to the way volunteers great treated, and the lack of volunteers.

DangerFrog · 06/11/2023 14:59

YANBU. The parents and your GSL are idiots and I'd be telling them to fuck off. If the camp doesn't happen? Too bad, so sad. Anyone else willing to give up their time rather than just whining? Didn't think so. I've been involved with enough groups to know that there are always those who will moan but you can be damn sure that they'll never get off their arses to help.

DH is a Scout leader and DS is doing his Young Leaders training while volunteering with Cubs. DH was out 4 nights last week at different Scouts meetings/events. He used up annual leave to support a week long camp. DS (still at school, no part-time job) has helped at multiple Cub camps - should he be expected to pay? Yes, the leaders enjoy it but they shouldn't be out of pocket for it.

12345change · 06/11/2023 15:07

My youngest is in scouts and I would be more than happy to cover the costs of the leaders what is the matter with people. Ridiculous! Sorry this has happened to you op!

Dixiechickonhols · 06/11/2023 15:09

I would definitely escalate it to more senior leadership when you leave. It’s really poor practice. In a time where volunteer numbers are low they shouldn’t be putting volunteer leaders in an awkward position.
You are obviously older and able to stand your ground.
Students, people unable to work due to caring commitments, sahm all volunteer - some may not be confident to say I’d love to help but £50 isn’t in my budget. Why should they be guilt tripped. No one knows anyone’s circumstances.
Volunteering shouldn’t just be preserve of wealthy.
Not sure where no dbs thing come from. Even unit helpers need full dbs and online safeguarding training in guiding, assume scouts same. All done in own time. Will have done an all day first aid course too.

Thekirit · 06/11/2023 15:10

Leave the parents who are complaining to take up your place.
Let them pay to give up their weekend, be sleep deprived and lose work.

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 06/11/2023 15:13

You are not being unreasonable!

The parents contribute (a little) money.
You contribute (a lot of) time and effort and experience.

My own children and those I fostered got a trememdous amount from Scouting and Guiding. I helped when I could but remained in awe of the time and energy freely offered by volunteer leaders.

Thank-you for all you have already done for scouting.

Please do step down- at least for a while.

The privileged persons objecting to your 'free' food (the stuff that costs you a working shift) etc. need to do some stepping up.

They won't understand this until light falls on what you volunteers were doing and they can apprieciate what has been lost!

Tanktanktank · 06/11/2023 15:21

No one appreciates a volunteer anymore. I’d personally never expect you to be out of pocket. Maybe volunteering is over and leaders should be paid.

personally I think I’d be leaving. Also if you do please write to their head office and explain why.