Aibu to not help Scouts…

[SecretsOfSunshine]

Name changed as identifiable.

Ive caused a bit of fall out, and didn’t expect it. I’m a bit of an accidental scout leader, not the main Akela but there weekly. My children went through scouts, the youngest is aging out. I’ve always been happy enough to help, I like kids. It’s not however something I’m hugely attached to either. I stayed mainly as they were short of leaders, and I enjoy it enough when there.

A parent complained that at camp they are feeding and housing the adults, we don’t pay to attend camps and we do eat.

Group section leader agreed, apparently other local packs do charge leaders for food over the weekend.

I didn’t get funny or stroppy, but I did say I’m out for camps. I said I don’t mind giving up my time, but it was a line for me to give up my weekend and pay for the pleasure. If I ate at home (large family) my food costs no where near the cost as the difference between cooking 5/6 portions is absorbed in the weekly food bill the same. Plus the scouts tend to overbuy and spend a lot more than is really needed tbh.

Another leader has now contacted me to say how strongly they disagree with me, also that I’m jeopardising the camp as they are already short on leaders. GSL has implied if I’m not committed maybe I should leave. Parents are moaning apparently.

The more I think the more pissed off I am. Tbh I’m ready to leave anyone between the increase in behaviour issues and local politics in the district. Camps have a horrible side of severe sleep deprivation and I also sometimes lose work shifts going or family commitments.

Is it really normal to begrudge volunteers their food and board in exchange for a weekend away for £50 and amazing activities laid on? I know when I was a teacher we were also included in costs spread among the kids. With 30/40 kids it’s hardly the bulk of the bill either

Another very grateful Cub/Scout parent here. I would happily pay MORE to include covering Leaders food if it needed because the level of commitment you show being there every week, planning and organising is worth that even before you factor in the camps!
I have volunteered for Girlguiding for over 3 years previously but left after some entitled parents started taking liberties that ultimately impacted on my family life. Arriving late by up to 30 minutes to collect their daughters meaning that my own dd was late to her club which started 45 minutes after we were meant to finish!

Volunteering is a wonderful thing to do, I highly recommend it but, no, it’s not something you should have to pay for.

I'd just stop.

Money is precious but time is also precious. If people can't see the value in it, there's no point in you giving it.

I do an entirely different type of volunteering, and I am shameless about selecting events based on how well they look after the volunteers. I'm normally there from 7am - 6pm. Some events think one sandwich and one drink is sufficient. I don't go back to ones like that. I'm giving up my time and paying for fuel, plus some equipment which I need. The least they can do is stretch to some ruddy food.

Conversely, many events are well briefed and the people in charge are absolutely charming. It's a pleasure to help at those and I happily do so.

Waves. Hello. I'm scout leader, same sort of role. No way would I pay myself to take the scouts away. I'm giving up my time, my petrol to drive there. I usually buy kids treats
I would say exactly the same as you. Luckily my parents arnt cf they really appreciate it and a little amazed we take kids off their hands lol

I've found this thread really interesting. I must admit when my daughter was briefly a Rainbow I didn't understand there was an expectation that parents volunteer nor was this explained when I signed her up. I definitely don't remember either of my parents ever volunteering during my entire time in Brownies and Guides (70s and 80s).

I volunteer with my child's music theatre troupe and we are rarely offered so much as a cup of tea and quite often berated for not knowing things no-one has told us. The chaperoning training is also at the volunteer's expense! They try to sell it to volunteers as a fun activity. They are constantly trying to guilt us into doing more.

It is not fun; it is tiring and also quite boring and sometimes a little worrying - I am actually trained in safeguarding and first aid but they have never actually asked if I am...

Volunteers definitely shouldn't be out of pocket and if you want them to commit and stay you have to actually manage them and be nice to them. And respect their time and effort!

Time to walk away and draw your boundaries.

I understand your frustration- I run a constituted Community group and have spent so many thankless hours putting things together and applying for funding. However; I’ve been amazed at the total ingratitude and unpleasantness from some. Dreadful.

Shit like this from lazy entitled and rude parents is one of the reasons that our rural community no longer has a Scout group. The leaders packed it in and I don't blame them.

Both my kids go to cubs. I would not begrudge the leaders a meal and refreshments for all the work they do.

Who are these people that bitch about volunteer led activities for your offspring?! Reveal yourselves and explain the other side.

My lovely friend ran guides for years (her children were not involved at all). Her last straw was when at the guides request they had an end of term chill out session and one set of parents sent an email criticising that there weren’t enough wholesome activities that week. They sent the email smugly signed from both of them. Was the last straw. Friend binned guiding and unit folded. Hope they were pleased with themselves.

The waters are significantly muddied though aren't they?

There are extra curricular activities that charge a realistic fee, may make a profit for someone, and those leading are paid.

There are extra curricular activities that charge a somewhat subsidised fee, run at breakeven or a loss, and may have free places, bursaries and scholarships for those who meet the criteria. Usually leaders for these are paid but there are unpaid volunteers too and sometimes legal requirements (e.g. for a certain number of trained chaperones for a theatre production).

Then there are extra curricular activities like Scouts etc that are run on a shoestring, charge a small amount and the leaders aren't paid.

There absolutely are entitled parents but it's often not made clear what basis a particular group runs on or what fees actually cover.

It's a recipe for misunderstandings all round.

Especially with so many more women in the paid workforce now. Sadly the value of volunteering time is higher when it's a trade off with paid work. For both the leaders and parents being asked to volunteer.

This is dreadful!
it’s a given that teachers, scout/guide leaders etc get into events and eat using the fees paid by the attendees,
I would send an email saying
”I am very sorry but after years of volunteering for the Scouts, I am disappointed that some of you feel I am not committed!, I have given up a lot of time to enable children to attend Scouts, and have given up weekends for camps, often turning down paid work to do so!… I find the suggestion that scout leaders should not only give up 48 hours to attend camp, but should also have to pay for the privilege a step too far. I am sorry that I’ve had to drop out of camp, but I simply can’t afford to loose pay and then have to pay to attend the event I’m giving up time and money for.
many thanks!

If you want to leave and this is the final straw then leave, and say why.

I am school governor and have heard teachers moaning about us, a lot, saying we are never present. We do monthly, multiple learning walks, we are doing meetings almost two monthly, I was sitting next to them at a school fair! They was being paid to show up, I wasn't. Pissed me right off. Just because I haven't been on a learning walk in that teachers class doesn't mean we are never there.

Same at NCT. Being made to feel like a leach as you got a small % off your NCT sales if you volunteered.

You need to get something out volunteering, be it giving back, experience, warn and fuzzy feelings, you belive strongly in the cause etc. You don't need it to feel like it's causing you harm. No wonder no one wants to volunteer

I'd definitely quit, right away and suggest that perhaps the complaining parent would like to go in your place.

I was a Girl Scout co-leader and we always used troop money to buy food for everyone going to camp--girls, leaders, etc. It never would have occurred to us to do otherwise nor is it a misuse of funds. My husband was a Boy Scout leader and it was the same.

Bow out. These self-centered parents don't appreciate you.

That’s a really great response

That reminds of the time two women removed their sons from Beavers because we did some health and fitness sessions (using an outdoor gym at the park) and then gave the kids a snack - not healthy enough, we should ban biscuits! And we hadn't invested them after 2 weeks, and called one the wrong name (out of a colony of 26, when I call my own kids the wrong name most times I open my mouth!)

They had a right moan and quite frankly I was glad to see the back of them, because who needs that sort of hassle as a volunteer looking after their kids for nothing!

Not read the whole thread and I apologise.

Usually with all school trips (I know this isn't one) there is a little extra added to the costs to cover the teachers that have to give up their time to do these life building trips.

You are doing them a huge service. It's voluntary work! So not only are you not getting paid but parents are expecting you to cover your costs whilst freely supervising their children!

Basic rules of volunteering for large organisations surely, that you should not be out of pocket when offering your time for free.

I cannot get over how unreasonable this request is. I think firm words are needed to convey how unreasonable this request is and what you already give freely.

This is a good response. Send them this!

Why are the water muddied? Does it really matter if the person taking your child away for the weekend is a volunteer, or gets paid? Either way, surely it's fine that food and accommodation are covered? Either as part of your salary, or as out-of-pocket expenses as a volunteer.

As a cub leader, we always cover leaders expenses (even petrol if requested, although no-one ever claims for this). If parents come to help on camp then we cover their food and accommodation expenses.

I've found this thread really interesting. I must admit when my daughter was briefly a Rainbow I didn't understand there was an expectation that parents volunteer nor was this explained when I signed her up. I definitely don't remember either of my parents ever volunteering during my entire time in Brownies and Guides (70s and 80s)

Not every group will need to ask for parental help - it will generally come down to the number of leaders and the size of the group. In the 70s and 80s, there were often enough leaders, and there wasn't the same rations of leaders/children that are required nowadays.

Daughter of Brown owl here. I know how hard everyone works so a Big Thank you to all youth group (and adult group) volunteers, whether scouts, guides, football, canoeing etc.

In the 70s and 80s, there were often enough leaders, and there wasn't the same rations of leaders/children that are required nowadays.

There were probably enough leaders because a much smaller proportion of mothers worked.

Why are the water muddied? Does it really matter if the person taking your child away for the weekend is a volunteer, or gets paid? Either way, surely it's fine that food and accommodation are covered? Either as part of your salary, or as out-of-pocket expenses as a volunteer.
Agree. If anything I think people are less likely to complain about costs if it is an activity run as a business than if it's a volunteer.
A couple of years ago I took part in a festival for the sport that I coach. There were coaches that were volunteers from a number of clubs, plus some from a commercial organisation who had been brought in as there weren't enough volunteers. We all had the same qualifications and were doing the same thing, but they were paid £200 for the day and we got dirty looks from the organisers for putting in travel expenses. Because they're professionals whereas we, as volunteers are there for the love of it.
In the same way, none of the parents at my DD's dance school would bat an eyelid that the teachers' uniforms and shoes are paid for from their lesson fees (and probably a tax deductible expense for the business I suppose) but if I asked my club to contribute to my sports shoes I would guarantee that I would need good ones in order to be able to run away from the parents chasing me whilst wielding pitchforks.

Yes we’ve had same..complaint re fun end of term trip ..what badge is that towards.
I now add a disclaimer to program that says as ever we aim for a mix of fun activities and skills badge work.
It’s old adage you can’t please everyone all of the time.
Social media probably plays a part so parents see national or regional events advertised and want to know why we aren’t going to x.
We try and offer a wide mix of activities. Making contacts and arranging activities takes a huge amount of time.
One term (for girls 10-13) we had arranged a talk from young female police officer (careers/online safety), I’d run a session for international women’s day re challenging gender stereotypes, done an influence skills builder inc the girls giving 3 minute talks, persuasive letter writing. We had also done fun sessions and a weekend away and a weekend day trip.
Message from a parent PS maybe include ideas that empower young women…
It knocks wind out of you and makes you think why bother. We are very open to ideas and responded that if you want to reach out to people/have contacts/want to run a session please do then heard nothing further.

There are no muddied waters.

There are just thick or cfer parents.

Which part of 'we are a parent led group. We rely on parent volunteers to run' is difficult to understand?

We have leaders permitted in a number of activities. They do 'exchanges' with other troops to earn favours to keep costs down. Scouts also do one camp which requires additional fees because of the equipment (owned by county scouts). District camp does have paid staff. This is part of camp site fees. But even then they are not for profit.

The point is parents DON'T want to understand. Its scouting. Its made explicitly clear. If the parents don't want to listen we can't force them.

Parents are well aware that if they book at an activity birthday party for 6 - 8kids how much it bloody costs.

It shouldn't really matter if it's a volunteer or an event run by someone who is paid ( say a teacher but who isn't getting paid for the 24/7 nature of running a school trip).

DPs should expect to pay for the living costs of that person during the event and say thank you to them at the end for their time. It's not much to ask.

If the DPs are struggling to pay for a scouting trip then they apply to the hardship fund.

Our start of every term and new joiner email says we are volunteers.
I also did a parents meeting via teams and introduced us and said what we did for our real paid jobs which definitely made an impression (only 1/4 parents came though…)
Surely it’s obvious from the cost. If it’s £4 a week for 90 mins in a hired room, all badges and weekly activities/supplies then it’s not got paid staff.
We did a 12 hour weekend day trip cost them £10 for train and entry fee and badge. Leaders got their train fare paid. Girls brought money for tea out. It’s blooming depressing if you have to start spelling out leaders bought their own Starbucks coffee (needed after 6.30am train) and their own tea in Nandos.