Aibu to not help Scouts…

[SecretsOfSunshine]

Name changed as identifiable.

Ive caused a bit of fall out, and didn’t expect it. I’m a bit of an accidental scout leader, not the main Akela but there weekly. My children went through scouts, the youngest is aging out. I’ve always been happy enough to help, I like kids. It’s not however something I’m hugely attached to either. I stayed mainly as they were short of leaders, and I enjoy it enough when there.

A parent complained that at camp they are feeding and housing the adults, we don’t pay to attend camps and we do eat.

Group section leader agreed, apparently other local packs do charge leaders for food over the weekend.

I didn’t get funny or stroppy, but I did say I’m out for camps. I said I don’t mind giving up my time, but it was a line for me to give up my weekend and pay for the pleasure. If I ate at home (large family) my food costs no where near the cost as the difference between cooking 5/6 portions is absorbed in the weekly food bill the same. Plus the scouts tend to overbuy and spend a lot more than is really needed tbh.

Another leader has now contacted me to say how strongly they disagree with me, also that I’m jeopardising the camp as they are already short on leaders. GSL has implied if I’m not committed maybe I should leave. Parents are moaning apparently.

The more I think the more pissed off I am. Tbh I’m ready to leave anyone between the increase in behaviour issues and local politics in the district. Camps have a horrible side of severe sleep deprivation and I also sometimes lose work shifts going or family commitments.

Is it really normal to begrudge volunteers their food and board in exchange for a weekend away for £50 and amazing activities laid on? I know when I was a teacher we were also included in costs spread among the kids. With 30/40 kids it’s hardly the bulk of the bill either

I've been a scout leader for 30 years. They are properly taking the piss complaining about having to pay to feed people looking after their kids for free. Now they're bitching about having to live with the consequences of biting the hand that fed them. Leave them to it OP. I'd quit too.

Definitely step away from this, sounds like multiple reasons to.

I manage my child's football team and put hours of time, resources (paid for by me) and deal with tons of crap and admin. I'd rather be enjoying watching my child with a flask of coffee on the line. I initially did it because nobody else volunteered and I have the right skills and experience, but the reason I continue is because I am appreciated by all the kids and parents. Every week without fail I get messages of thanks and support for what I am doing.

Find yourself a nice hobby or volunteer somewhere you are appreciated.

I volunteered for DofE at my school last year. We had some food provided and paid for some ourselves (pub lunch). But we get a £50 per diem. Volunteers should not be out of pocket!

I’ve also used several days annual leave this year to prepare for camps etc. next year I will be using a week of annual leave for the international trip.

I would step away now ..

it is a thankless job .

I always appreciated the leaders taking my Ds away to camp . Never once did I consider could they buy there own food and I maybe pay £2 less .

I would walk away now before you feel bitter about the whole experience

And petty shit like this from parents was 100% of the reason I stopped volunteering with scouts.

Wow this is outrageous! I can't believe the cheek of some people. Definitely walk away! They don't deserve you.

I mentioned this on a similar(ish - I can't really remember what it was about) thread last week, parents don't value volunteers precisely because they give their services for free. (Think it was about football coach, the other thread.) Free service = no value/worthless in some peoples' brains. As a PP said, fuck 'em.

I'm a leader and I have only paid for huge county or international camps. And then only the basic costs.

All other camps, the cost for leaders are always covered by the young people attending. It's standard in all the groups I have ever helped with.

Pretty surprised any groups do different!

YANBU
Ive volunteer twice (half days) on scout camps and it took about 10 minutes for me to want to pay the leaders for all they do for the kids
camps are hard work for the leaders, they are giving their time and (let’s face it) even money to give the kids a fantastic time
its not a relaxing weekend for them
i would hope what I pay for my child’s camp helps cover the basics for the leaders - not for them to ay for the “privilege”

I've been a leader for around 7 years. I also help at other groups in the area if they need a pair of hands.

I have never paid for a UK camp. I don't claim back petrol/toll costs like some leaders because I can afford not to. My food and pitch fee is covered by the group.

I give up my time (full weekends and even full weeks for summer camps, using precious annual leave). I don't think being fed is unreasonable.

The only time I pay is for big events like Jamborees where leaders also have an entry fee, and of course any international trips or things with an actual entry fee like Thorpe Park.

Parents need to take a look at the cost of school activity trips compared to scouting. My son's one day/no overnight trip to an outdoors centre was £90, doing identical activities to scouts. My group charges £35, including 2 nights camping, meals and activities. Puts it into perspective doesn't it?

Absolutely not! Many, many parents forget that every single adult / young leader in the Scouts / Guides are volunteers and give up not only the evening a week to run the Unit but countless hours behind the scenes in all the planning / organising / administration - before they even get to camps (not forgetting all the permits required to just be able to go to camp).

As you say that still doesn't take into account the childcare you may need to arrange for your own children while you are away / lack of sleep (coming back exhausted) and holidays you may have to take off work / arrange shift changes just to be able to take them.

Every single one of you that volunteers - for any organisation - give their time / commitment (often at a financial loss to themselves) for the benefit of others and it is a shame that often the odd parent that complains gets their way - pushing great, committed leader's / helpers out. I bet the parent that complained doesn't volunteer?!

Thank you from a parent that's youngsters are all benefiting and growing into amazing young people as they are being given the opportunities in the Scouting movement that we, as parents, could never offer them.

P.S.......ask the parent that's complaining to take your place on the weekend camp!

I'd resign now.

Walk away op, no good deed goes unpunished as they say.
I am a Brownie leader and I don’t do weekend things or camps for exactly this reason. I work weekends and it would require me to use annual leave, which is not how I want to use it! Paying for the privilege of having no sleep getting other people’s kids to behave? I don’t think so.
I lay it on very thick that my leaders and I are volunteers, it completely baffles the parents but I do get a few thank yous each term.
Once my DD is finished with Guiding I will be off too. The levels of entitlement have gone through the roof in recent years.
Thank you for all you have done for the kids in your troop x

I’m an ex-Brownie leader. We used to absorb leaders’ costs for camps and outings, because leaders were already paying generously in their time. But the reason I became an ex-leader was that both parents and the organisation itself were making more and more demands, which were simply unmanageable.

Step away if they’re asking for more (money or time) than you’re willing or able to give.

My DH volunteers with a national youth organisation and does have to pay b&b for the weeks camp - it was less than £5. He doesn't have to pay for most of his uniform (Scouters do I believe) and he has had wonderful opportunities which he has paid for his flights.

I am about to return to Scouting, to occasionally, help out. I won't be volunteering for camps after the OP!

You give up your time for free and enable their children to do something. Of course they should cover the cost of adult helpers… I am a bit like you and help out but not a leader, if I had to pay for myself I wouldn’t bother..:
Additionally, who do they think pays for teachers on school residentials? It is factored into each child’s costs…

I agree. And for parents and even some leaders to begrudge helpers a little bit of food, when they put so much time and effort in, is horrible. Scouts are desperately short of volunteers and people like this will drive more of them away. There’s no way these whingers will volunteer themselves. It’s hard work and time consuming.

My dc did scouts. It’s a fantastic movement and the activities are incredibly good value. If these parents stopped to think for a second, they’d realise that it would be impossible to get such varied activities this cheaply anywhere else, and a good part of the reason for that is that the people who organise and run everything don’t get paid a penny.

I wouldn’t be guilt tripped. What about leaders who can’t afford to pay especially younger ones. Awful precedent to set and not inclusive.
What happens if you say I’d have loved to have volunteered but I can’t afford the £30, my contribution was 48 hours free labour but if that’s not enough I’ll have to pass.

This is a slightly tricky one and is something we discuss when I take my Brownies on residentials. You would have to pay for food at home so why should you get it free on camp when the children aren't.

However, I tend to be of the same opinion as you, and think that all leader costs should be absorbed in the cost to the young people. If I don't go, then the residential doesn't happen. There are a lot of costs to me, not all of them monetary, involved in taking young people on residentials (the time spent planning, the lack of sleep, the annual leave I have to take from work, the fact that the last residential I ran in the summer ended with me taking 3 days sick leave because I came back with such a horrendous cold). I think children paying leaders' costs is the least they can do.

I'm a Group Scout Leader and have organised numerous camps. We would never charge leaders for attending a camp, it's a ridiculous idea.

I really hope we covered the cost of the leaders who took DD to the Rangers camp!

I'm so sorry this has happened, how rubbish when you give up your time, petrol and most importantly your sleep!

I never once thought that the volunteers for this sort of thing would have to pay their own way in terms of food etc. It's not like they are quaffing champagne and oysters.

My food at home though has very little cost. I budget well and also have a large family who are still eating in my absence. Between them tbh they’ll just eat my portion. I don’t save anything at all eating at camp.
I work shifts, a shift I can’t do at camp is also £180 lost to me. I really don’t save

YANBU!

You're already giving up your free time and in a position of responsibility (and would have to take a child to hospital if required) so a free meal is the least they can offer you.

On school trips, teachers do not pay. Most companies that organise school trips offer a free teacher place per 10 kids. But again, it's a huge amount of planning and stress and giving up free time (and additional childcare costs sometimes!), so if you had to pay, you just wouldn't do it!

I am a scout secretary so just an admin role (no kids in cubs/scouts any more), and although I have no contact with the kids, I'm still expected to do all their online training which takes ages!

If they're going to not appreciate the time and effort you put in, then personally I'd just leave. There are SO many young people organisations that would LOVE to have someone like yourself to give up time and effort, so I'd suggest finding another organisation that would appreciate you.