Aibu to not help Scouts…

[SecretsOfSunshine]

Name changed as identifiable.

Ive caused a bit of fall out, and didn’t expect it. I’m a bit of an accidental scout leader, not the main Akela but there weekly. My children went through scouts, the youngest is aging out. I’ve always been happy enough to help, I like kids. It’s not however something I’m hugely attached to either. I stayed mainly as they were short of leaders, and I enjoy it enough when there.

A parent complained that at camp they are feeding and housing the adults, we don’t pay to attend camps and we do eat.

Group section leader agreed, apparently other local packs do charge leaders for food over the weekend.

I didn’t get funny or stroppy, but I did say I’m out for camps. I said I don’t mind giving up my time, but it was a line for me to give up my weekend and pay for the pleasure. If I ate at home (large family) my food costs no where near the cost as the difference between cooking 5/6 portions is absorbed in the weekly food bill the same. Plus the scouts tend to overbuy and spend a lot more than is really needed tbh.

Another leader has now contacted me to say how strongly they disagree with me, also that I’m jeopardising the camp as they are already short on leaders. GSL has implied if I’m not committed maybe I should leave. Parents are moaning apparently.

The more I think the more pissed off I am. Tbh I’m ready to leave anyone between the increase in behaviour issues and local politics in the district. Camps have a horrible side of severe sleep deprivation and I also sometimes lose work shifts going or family commitments.

Is it really normal to begrudge volunteers their food and board in exchange for a weekend away for £50 and amazing activities laid on? I know when I was a teacher we were also included in costs spread among the kids. With 30/40 kids it’s hardly the bulk of the bill either

Oh, I'd be so annoyed!
My DH volunteers and while parents are annoying (most never ever help out even though they are meant to do so once a term) I don't think they have stooped this low.
I think you need to walk away completely and not just from camps. If you know the particular parents who complained, you could suggest their names as a replacement for you as their "ethos" matches the troop's very nicely.

That’s exactly it, entitlement, and these parents are causing Scouting and Girlguiding to die off. It’s incredibly sad.

@SecretsOfSunshine what is up with those parents?! You couldn’t pay me enough danger money to help out at a Scout camp! My DD1’s Rangers leaders gave up a week of their summer holiday each to take 50 girls wild camping in Sweden. I’m assuming that we all contributed to the leaders’s costs - and I know that they also fundraised via the local Rotary Club etc - but I do not begrudge a penny. If I were wealthy (which I most definitely not), I would have offered to pay for a leader flight ticket. Thank you for everything you have done for the Scouting movement.

Yes , I had a ‘hobby’ comment. Also ours is a generally affluent pack, lots of money. I have a larger family, earn less. I’m not poor but it’s a squeeze. I’m not prepared to use a limited budget for scouts and cut back on treats for my children.

I'm a Guide leader. We always absorb leader site fees and food on unit camps. As others have said the exception is large scale camps like Wellies where we have to pay a leader charge but then there are activities for us and we don't have to organise all the food and activities so it is (a bit) more relaxing and less work for us.

We also offer mileage to leaders who might otherwise struggle. We also have access to grants to support leaders and girls otherwise we risk excluding members and helpers.

Oh dear lord! How penny-pinching, awkward and mean spirited.

The Charity Commission is very clear that volunteers should have out-of-pocket expenses met by charities and other voluntary organisations. So even if you paid for food then it would be reasonable for you to claim it back!

I would be tempted to write an open letter, giving an account of what has happened and saying that you are happy to support this final camp so that it can go ahead (obviously completely up to you if you want to or not) but that you will be doing it on the same basis as before and stepping down from the troop immediately afterwards.

Former beaver leader here. Leaders in our group do not pay anything to attend camps, and I believe this is the case across the District. The commitment of time and effort is quite enough on its own.

I'd walk away too.
They can ask the parent who complained to take your place.

Wow, I really hope our group's Brownie leaders dont have to pay when they all go to camp, they are awesome and give up their free time, the parents are well aware and very appreciative of that, we all chip in for thank you gifts. I will check, and we'll also start chipping in towards camp costs if that is the case.

I'm so sorry your volunteering hasn't been appreciated OP, but glad to have learnt a bit more about the ask on leaders.

There are always school parents who think teachers should pay for the "holidays" they get on school trips too....

Do they think you’re getting a lovely free holiday out of it?! How pathetic. Tell them to fuck off. If the camp can’t go ahead because of it, tough shit. Let the cheeky fucker parents who begrudge paying a couple of quid each when split between the group step in and save the day.

I’ nearly replied to point out if I said ‘I’ll bring my own food’, packed lunches and I pop out for chips or something, they will not make a noticeable saving off the food bill anyway. Everything is in bulk 🤷‍♀️

But, I think I’d rather just bow out

I would walk away. of course your food and drink should be covered, you’re giving up your weekend for the benefit of the scouts, not for you!!

Guide Leader here - I'd be out the door at speed, possibly more pissed off at the GSL than the whinging parents TBH!

I used to be on the scout committee and this was constant. Parents complaining at paying for camp; not wanting to help to keep costs down; complaining our fund raising wasn't innovative enough; moaning if leaders were unavailable etc. some of the parents had 4 children in the troop but never volunteered to help at anything. In the end I gave up - my son had left scouts years before so I was donating time to make a great experience for others. Which was fine until I realised how little the other parents cared

They’re being ridiculous! I’ve not done it myself but friends have been guide leaders and I know how much effort they have to put in. No way should you also have to pay to take other people’s kids away! I bet the complaining parents would never volunteer to go and look after loads of kids for a weekend and pay for the privilege!

I don’t do Scouts or Guides, but I do volunteer to help out with several local youth groups. We’ve recently lost the paid member of staff from the organisation we’re affiliated with and they haven’t managed to replace the position yet.

This has meant that a couple of us have had to step up in to organising events etc. While we’ve yet to encounter ‘why aren’t the leaders paying for themselves?’ situation, the entitlement of some parents has flabbergasted me! We have a relatively small team, all of whom otherwise work full-time. The whinging that we haven’t put on as many events as last year or that certain things aren’t on at times they want is getting incredibly frustrating. I genuinely enjoy what we do and offering opportunities to the children, but fgs we’re all volunteers, not skivvies for certain parents!

YADNBU to just up and walk away. If one of our parents suggested the leaders should be paying for all the activities we organise for the children, I’d up and leave them in the lurch without a second thought.

I actually made a stand on this for a youth organisation I spent many years volunteering for. I was asked to take a group of young people on an International tour. I explained I was happy to do this, but would expect to be heavily subsidised. I needed to take annual leave, and would be working hard on the trip. It was as though the other members of the committee, mostly older, wealthier, and retired hadn’t considered this. Once pointed out they agreed to cover the costs of volunteers, and this has now become the norm. As a result it has become easier to recruit new volunteers, who now feel their hours of graft are valued.

I'm a youth leader and my co-leader suggested to me on our first trip (we founded the group together) that we (leaders) should pay when we do trips.

This was in relation to our first camping weekend, so there was the mini-bus hire, petrol, pitch fees, activity (gorge-walking), food etc. I said "hahahaha! You nearly got me there!".

He never mentioned leaders paying for trips again.

Tell your scout leader to do one.

To totally shock your entitled parents...

I used to be given a discounted rate when I had to bring one of my out of age group kids along. (For example the camp was £25, I paid £25 for Cub DD and £12 for Beaver DD even though Beaver DD joined in with everything... because she was there so that we were in ratio).

You can bet the parents that complain about won't step up to help if needed. Helping out at Scouts, even for the official leaders, is a bit of thankless task. I don't think you should be paying to attend camp, that's ridiculous. I'm not sure what our pack does to be honest, I've never given it any thought. Do they think that as you are also a parent that you should pay? Or that all volunteers/leaders pay?

I can’t believe parents begrudge paying for your food, I would never expect a leader to pay for their food and board on a camp. That’s awful. Scout leaders do so much for our children and I’m really sorry your parents aren’t grateful.

I’ve been a leader and I was shocked that we were expected to contribute to the costs of camp “for our food”. Told the GSL exactly what I thought about that and didn’t pay. It wasn’t raised (with me) again.

Your GSL should be telling the parents pipe down and inviting them to get off their backsides and help. If cost of camps is actually an issue - ie you’re in a v deprived area etc - then it’s up to the parents to support the group to fundraise.

This kind of crap is the sort of stuff that drives leaders away. It needn’t be. Stand your ground OP but please don’t quit for the sake of this nonsense.

I am forever grateful for the time leaders give up (in many cases using up annual leave) in general but for camps in particular.

no way would I expect leaders to have to pay extra to attend and eat at camp!! Why on Earth should they? Is the job not hard work enough ?

You are looking after other people's kids for a whole weekend and they begrudge you a bowl of stew? I bet they treat their babysitter a lot better than that.