Aibu to not help Scouts…

[SecretsOfSunshine]

Name changed as identifiable.

Ive caused a bit of fall out, and didn’t expect it. I’m a bit of an accidental scout leader, not the main Akela but there weekly. My children went through scouts, the youngest is aging out. I’ve always been happy enough to help, I like kids. It’s not however something I’m hugely attached to either. I stayed mainly as they were short of leaders, and I enjoy it enough when there.

A parent complained that at camp they are feeding and housing the adults, we don’t pay to attend camps and we do eat.

Group section leader agreed, apparently other local packs do charge leaders for food over the weekend.

I didn’t get funny or stroppy, but I did say I’m out for camps. I said I don’t mind giving up my time, but it was a line for me to give up my weekend and pay for the pleasure. If I ate at home (large family) my food costs no where near the cost as the difference between cooking 5/6 portions is absorbed in the weekly food bill the same. Plus the scouts tend to overbuy and spend a lot more than is really needed tbh.

Another leader has now contacted me to say how strongly they disagree with me, also that I’m jeopardising the camp as they are already short on leaders. GSL has implied if I’m not committed maybe I should leave. Parents are moaning apparently.

The more I think the more pissed off I am. Tbh I’m ready to leave anyone between the increase in behaviour issues and local politics in the district. Camps have a horrible side of severe sleep deprivation and I also sometimes lose work shifts going or family commitments.

Is it really normal to begrudge volunteers their food and board in exchange for a weekend away for £50 and amazing activities laid on? I know when I was a teacher we were also included in costs spread among the kids. With 30/40 kids it’s hardly the bulk of the bill either

YANBU. I do not volunteer with Scouts but my DS does (he didn't go through Scouts properly; he started this as a DofE exercise and has just carried on, which is lovely. I'm only adding this because the only reason I never got involved with scout volunteering is because he wasn't one!) however I've volunteered for several other activities/ PSAs/ NCT/ etc for many years.

These parents have the actual audacity to complain AND the leaders are actually agreeing with them? You really need to just step away at this point because if that's the culture there, you won't change it alone. You've done an amazing run for them and they should be thankful.

FWIW everything I know about residential trips involves the cost of leaders meals being covered by the children's fees. It's a matter of a few pounds per child, at most, and should be considered a cost of running it.

Well all those parents who complained can take them to camp can't they! I'd leave. You did it for your kids, you have done your time leave them to it x

I left Brownie leading as I was coming up against similar issues. Not from the parents (as far as I know), but from the leaders! Coming up against District Commissioners saying of course you can't get a petrol refund for that, and we charge our leaders for eg a panto ticket (when taking brownies to a panto or somewhere is like herding cats :-)). I was dirt poor and only putting petrol in my car to go to the meetings (in a nearby village that the DCs had sent me too). Had so much time and willingness, but sadly couldn't stay. This from an affluent district with wealthy packs that offered help to parents if they needed it ...

ADC Scouts here

No you should not have to pay for camps or food.

Happy to speak over PM

I'm a trustee of a scout group and we don't expect leaders to pay.

Frankly, if parents want to start being that petty they can start to pay real costs for two full nights of accommodation, full board, full supervision and a wide range of activities.

It would cost a HELL of a lot more than the money that's charged now. Can't have it both ways.

I agree with this.

Think how much you'll enjoy your free time once you step down.

Hopefully the Moaning Myrtles will learn a valuable lesson too.

Well, maybe the complainers and group leaders will have to rethink their plan!

JESUS. If some kind people I trusted volunteered to take my two for an activity weekend, I'd happily pay for their meals AND bring them a thank you gift at the end of it (then I'd get in a hot bath and not get out of it again until Sunday pick-up 😂)

Honestly, OP, I think it's time to bow out of this group. CFs.

EXACTLY my point. Scouts and similar organisations have serious responsibilities to ensure equal access for all and to uphold their own values! Excluding those volunteers who can't afford to donate is completely outrageous. Everyone should be recompensed for their expenses, and those who CAN afford can always donate the money back.

I can't believe how entitled some parents out their are when in reality your giving up your weekends to bring their kids away and do certain things with them. Then your in a position of responsibility to care and keep them safe. Now they expect you to pay your costs for this.
In your situation I would be thinking of leaving and letting those above you the reason why.
You also mentioned that your kids were getting to the age of finishing scouts so you could use this as an excuse to leave either.

I know someone in a similar position to you who has been a volunteer for a few years. Like you they have had to deal with certain situations and parents. I know at this stage they will be leaving their group in the next few months.

Do these people not release that with out volunteers there kids could not have scouts, sports events ect.

Leave and let another parent volunteer. It’s pathetic. I was a scout leader and left because I got fed up of giving up so much of my time , only for (some) parents to whinge.

Your GSL is a total idiot for pandering to this.

Of course leaders should not be paying. You are giving your time.

OMFG. I'm astounded at the attitude of parents towards scout leaders. My 2 DC have had brilliant experiences with beavers, cubs and scouts. The camps and weekends away have all been amazing and worth way more than we paid for them. Me and another mum always make a couple of full tins of brownies, tablet, and millionaire shortbread for the leaders to take with them. Least we can do.

I don't fully agree with you about parents going away during camps though. If our DC are not home why should we not take advantage of that? We usually try to be relatively nearby the camp so would probably be quicker to get there than if coming from home. I appreciate not all parents would think like that

I had to close a camp early and send all the children home due to an outbreak of vomiting.

(Caused by parents sending a child they admitted later they thought was maybe coming down with something)

Myself and another leader had to wait several hours for the parents of one child to return from a mini break. The wait was extended further as they stopped for a pub lunch on the way home.

Even though we repeatedly phoned for updates and asked them to contact someone else to collect their sobbing child.

Eventually an angry (at us) grandma turned up.

By all means take advantage but don't take the piss and make sure there is an alternative emergency contact.

Another ex GSL here.

I would never, ever expect a leader to pay for themselves. Absolutely dreadful of your Group to ask for payment from volunteers. If you're not getting anywhere with your GSL, speak to your District Commissioner.

while I don't disagree with your point that breaking things down by what we put in/get out in a society isn't the best way of looking at it, your second point doesn't really make sense -the current working generation only need the generation behind them to pay for their pension because they are themselves paying the pensions of the generation above them, because that's the way the system was set up
if we instead got back what we individually put in nobody would 'owe' anyone anything
(and that's assuming there's going to even be a state pension in 20/30 /40 years anyway!)
to be fair most childfree people are probably putting in more than they get out of 'the system'

(also also as a civil servant I do get free tea and coffee in work, sorry....!)

Actually, the point I was making was that everyone in my generation is going to need a pension, to have medical professionals on hand, maybe have someone else paying the bulk of taxes for roads etc when we get old, whether we have children or not. So begrudging funding the education of the people who will do all that on the grounds that you don't have children is short sighted (and given the amount of work it takes to raise a child, a bit freeloading).

It's perhaps not the best example compared to the scouts but it's a similar "me, me, me" mindset combined with a lack of awareness of how much they either do or will rely on others.

Exactly.

Our group has been known to boot problematic parents who take the piss, don't help out when asked and are cheeky fuckers. Unfortunately that means their children are asked to leave as the result of their behaviour.

It makes for a much better experience for everyone.

Sadly it doesn't remotely surprise me that parents say this either. They come out with all sorts of eye rolling bullshit, but cos we have a policy that if the parents don't agree to help occasionally their kid doesn't get a space.

At this point, after having helped at a session, parents then appreciate the leaders a lot more... Cos they are glad they don't have to help for another 10 weeks!

It really filters out the difficult parents!

@Newestname002 I love the rose you added at the end lol. I am going to do that for all my posts now

Another ex GSL here.

I would never, ever expect a leader to pay for themselves. Absolutely dreadful of your Group to ask for payment from volunteers. If you're not getting anywhere with your GSL, speak to your District Commissioner.

Bit of a simplification here, perhaps showing the privilege of some groups.
We have sections in our District that would never be able to go away without the immense generosity of some of their Leaders.

I agree with the overwhelming majority on this thread, that Leaders shouldn't have to.
I agree with the Op that, in the circumstances of her group, it clearly shouldn't happen, and the Trustee board should make it a policy that all costs of the camp (or activity), including those incurred by the Volunteer Team, should be covered.

However, it is far too simplistic, and ignoring the realities of Scouting in economically deprived areas, to put such emphasis on "never, ever".

This.

I firmly disagree with charging volunteers for anything. Your time is precious!! They might not pay you but expecting you to pay for the privilege is a joke!!

Not your problem, and I'd be pretty sharp with the next person who brings it up- or even offer an open discussion time at the next meeting for all these moaning parents? You give up your time, when they can't/ won't. You help to run a club they can't/ won't. In no way would I ever expect you to pay for it if I was a parent there. I would be telling them you are quitting full-stop if the majority of aprents are unhappy, because you've only ever helped to be nice, it because you have any real 'love' for the group- and if 'people' have an issue, you're happy to give them the chance to do what you've had to....

Just out of interest, OP, how much are you expected to pay for the privilege of going to the camp?

I'm with you, just step back with a thanks but no thanks. If that leaves them short I'm sure they'll find someone else willing to go along and pay to babysit all the kids...

I hear you, UsingChangeofName, but our area of Girlguiding was also quite deprived, with families with very little money to spend on their children’s activities. The answer was never to expect leaders to pay, but to be relentless in pursuing grants and other funding. I’ve always assumed that Scouting (which seems to have more of a structure above unit level) would be better at this than Girlguiding.

Absolutely a natural end for you OP.

I cannot believe the rudeness of the parents suggesting this.

Any attempt to guilt you, tell them to approach the parents that had an issue.

End of discussion.

Unbelievable