Aibu to not help Scouts…

[SecretsOfSunshine]

Name changed as identifiable.

Ive caused a bit of fall out, and didn’t expect it. I’m a bit of an accidental scout leader, not the main Akela but there weekly. My children went through scouts, the youngest is aging out. I’ve always been happy enough to help, I like kids. It’s not however something I’m hugely attached to either. I stayed mainly as they were short of leaders, and I enjoy it enough when there.

A parent complained that at camp they are feeding and housing the adults, we don’t pay to attend camps and we do eat.

Group section leader agreed, apparently other local packs do charge leaders for food over the weekend.

I didn’t get funny or stroppy, but I did say I’m out for camps. I said I don’t mind giving up my time, but it was a line for me to give up my weekend and pay for the pleasure. If I ate at home (large family) my food costs no where near the cost as the difference between cooking 5/6 portions is absorbed in the weekly food bill the same. Plus the scouts tend to overbuy and spend a lot more than is really needed tbh.

Another leader has now contacted me to say how strongly they disagree with me, also that I’m jeopardising the camp as they are already short on leaders. GSL has implied if I’m not committed maybe I should leave. Parents are moaning apparently.

The more I think the more pissed off I am. Tbh I’m ready to leave anyone between the increase in behaviour issues and local politics in the district. Camps have a horrible side of severe sleep deprivation and I also sometimes lose work shifts going or family commitments.

Is it really normal to begrudge volunteers their food and board in exchange for a weekend away for £50 and amazing activities laid on? I know when I was a teacher we were also included in costs spread among the kids. With 30/40 kids it’s hardly the bulk of the bill either

Until this term I was the only leader who was also a current parent.
Weve had three parents volunteer this term... all of whom have chosen the "not my child section" option as they agree with the idea

It works for us. Another local pack recently folded as they relied too heavily on current agents who then stopped as soon as their child aged out.

Most of us Leaders in our Rainbows/Brownies and Guides don’t have children in groups. That seems to befuddle some parents - which dd is yours… one leader is childfree by choice. Mine has aged out but I’m still here.
If we have parent help on a trip then we would usually put them with a different group not their own dc.

Tell them to do one. Let the CFs complaining step up and get involved. This sort of thing is why people give up volunteering.

Surely most groups would make exceptions for someone in difficult circumstances though?

We love a parent volunteer! It's our main leader recruiting tool. We have 6 leaders in our cub pack, two are parents of current cubs, four used to have cubs in the pack, came along to help on a regular basis and stayed on after their children moved on to scouts. We don't really find it a problem as far as the dynamics go. The parents who are only interested in helping their own child don't last long anyway, once we start asking them to help out in other areas.

@PuttingDownRoots out of interest, how do you go about recruiting leaders, if not though parent involvement?

tell em to get stuffed

That’s ridiculous and so ungrateful. They really have bitten the hand that feeds them, I find that so spiteful that the parents have done that. Good riddance to them, you sound like you have done enough for them already.

I enjoy scouting and have for many, many years. All four of my boys joined as beavers and are now leaders, Explorers and a scout. I'll put my GSL hat on for the next bit.
As a leader/assistant/helper, you give up your time, energy and money (fuel, lost shifts etc) to give the kids a great time. I have never, nor would I ever, charge £50 for a weekend. I don't know of any group that charges £50, maybe £10-£20
The leaders with your group don't sound very scout-like IMO.

The day I stop enjoying it, is the day I give up.

Stay because you enjoy it. If you don't, leave. If the camp doesn't go ahead, it is the parents and leaders complaining that are letting the kids down, not you. Your GSL should be supportive not telling you to leave.

You have 4 options.

1. Stay
2. Leave
3. Find another group that appreciates you.
4. Move and come to my group 😁

Couldn’t agree more. You owe them nothing. You’ve contributed more than most already. Walk away.

Fuck them if that's their attitude.
You are giving up your family time for free and this is how you're repaid? Sheesh 😡
No way would I do that again.

Having been involved with cubs when my children were younger - I understand how you feel. Unfortunately there are never enough parents who are prepared to give up their time.
To complain that you are being fed at camp when you are looking after their children seems a bit petty - time to step away. Do not feel bad if the camp doesn't go ahead - it is time someone else took over.

I ran the school PTA for ages and stepped down when I realised it was taking over my life - everyone complained that they didn't want to do it and I was unreasonable to step down - someone stepped up when there was no choice.

Its hard to step aside when it is in your nature to help but sometime you just have to

I was a scout leader for a number of years (lost count of how many people just “didn’t have time”🙁). Leaders never paid for food.

We used to get this when taking kids in school trips. The staff places are generally free because they have to have x number of adults accompanying them. If the adults don’t go (usually giving up more than their usual working hours!) then the trips don’t run. It’s not exactly a day off for staff- you are working 😂 some people are just miserable!

As a Scout leader myself, if I had to pay for the privilege of camping in wet November, like I did last weekend, I really would object. In terms of choldcare costs for a weekend, Scout camp is amazing value.

You’ve been so good to give up your time, I wouldn’t pay for the privilege I would say I’ve enjoyed my time but I’m done, different if your children still attended I would be more inclined to stick it out but get your time back

NRTFT but just wanted to add my bit

My DC used to attend scouts. Every so often, they'd go on camps or day trips out. I absolutely expected that in the costs to parents it would include covering the VOLUNTEER leaders expenses too. They didn't get paid to provide this club during the rest of the weeks, just £10 a month to cover the hire of the hall where they met, so covering their other day trips/camps seemed nothing less than perfectly reasonable to me. They were providing my child with a wealth of experiences, knowledge and fun, while being a childminder. It gave me and DH the odd weekend day/night to ourselves. It was worth every penny.

Anyone who thinks a volunteer who enriches our children's lives doesn't deserve their expenses paid with a small collective contribution is an entitled tight-fisted c*nt!

Unfortunately, my DC left as his group also suffered with low numbers of volunteers, so these experiences became fewer and fewer. Meets started getting cancelled, trips and camps started becoming far less frequent and my DC became very bored. The life enriching experiences dwindled and the enthusiasm for Scouts went with it.

I'm now starting to wonder if the low volunteer numbers is a result of something similar.

OP, YANBU. The parents complaining are evidence of the epidemic of entitlement sweeping through society lately, and its bloody tragic.

I wouldnt blame you if you left.

Thank you for all your time and help with the kids. My kids have all benefited from volunteers like yourself.
I'm absolutely shocked to hear that some people think you should pay for yourself whilst giving up your time, money and holidays for the kids. It's absolutely outrageous!
Say no and walk away. As someone else said, there are so many other groups who could use your time without being nasty about it x

Maybe suggest the parent who complained take your place

Wow. I’m a teacher and a brownie leader. Never paid for myself on a residential or trip yet. With school we had to factor in the price of a supply teacher for the week when a new head made us change from giving up our half term holiday to go when only a few teachers would volunteer to going in term time when all the teachers suddenly wanted to go. We calculated the cost from the supplier - PGL - and then also added the cost of the supply teacher then the trip cost was split by the number of kids going. I’d given up several half term holidays sore that to travel by bus to France from the north west for a Monday to Friday visit. No overtime, no tie off in lieu. But not cost to me financially. Brownie trips have been the same and absorbed by the unit. I’ve paid for my own kids to attend but not myself.

I volunteer within scouts.

I agree, I'm not paying to go camp with my section when I'm not gonna sleep and probably spent the last 2 weekends organising the camp.

It does end up costing me though, I buy things and forget to reclaim it, fuel for going places etc but I really try and ensure any of the adults helping are not out of pocket.

It's very rare we charge any adults helping.
We all put £5 in for group camp food, that was 2 nights and as costs had gone up so much we overspent and we have paid towards big County camps food - £15 for 2 days 3 meals a day I think it was - but normally anything sectional or even at District level, I have never charged adults for camp/sleepovers.
We charged for the coach seats at an event once to ensure the cost was covered, but not the event itself.

Sometimes adults pay for things like Panto seats (although the more I think about it, the more I think we should be building in adult prices and next year, I might think about that) but not general weekly activities.
I also ensure all leaders recieve a free necker as a minimum & if they go and buy a leader's uniform shirt, I'm happy to cover that for them too. I also try and ensure leaders are included in badges - events/special activities and occasional thank you badges and don't charge them. I think it's a nice touch and I hope it makes them feel appreciated.

If a parent was to complain I would be asking them where else they think they are getting the kind of value for money childcare else where. And of course they are welcome to take their child there instead of with us.
My youngest is doing a school trip that's costing 3 times as much as an equivalent Scout trip. It's midweek, so yes the teachers loose their evenings but pretty sure they haven't taken AL for it or used their weekends to organise it either.

I was a scout and beaver scout leader and assistant district commissioner for Beavers, for years until the area commissioner upset me (I was letting the kids down because I couldn’t get another parent to be a leader, she also did it on the anniversary of my mums death) and I was only 28 at the time.
I would never pay. If you aren’t there the camp can’t go ahead. It’s as simple as that!
give it up. I’m glad I did and it had been my life for 10 years! Xx

I worship our scout leaders, they are amazing, I credit scouts with helping me produce two amazing dds, they give up their precious annual leave to take my kids on camp, the absolute least I can do is pay for their food as part of camp fees. Bloody hell! Great scout leaders are like gold dust (same applies for guiding, cadets etc)!

I'd just say that then. Say you were going to stop soon anyway and due to COL their decision has just pushed the decision to be sooner. Their loss as you sound awesome.

I am a Brownie leader, I have never paid for food on a weekend away! My time, the lack of sleep, dodgy showers and uncomfortable sleeping arrangements is enough payment!! The parents are very ungrateful.

You are absolutely NOT BU!!

I wouldn’t spend a sleep-deprived weekend in a flimsy tent in the British weather wiping the snotty noses of other people’s kids. I wouldn’t do it for £200 and I wouldn’t do it for a few free meals. I would laugh in the face of anyone who then told me I would have to pay a single penny of my own money towards the cost of anything on this damp and exhausting babysitting trip.

I have volunteered in the past and it never ceased to amaze me how involved some people like to be with their opinions but never with their time!

You’ve done your bit. You can leave with your head held high. I feel bad for you that it’s under these circumstances because as far as I see it - people like you are why these things can still run. I would be happy to pay extra for my child in order to feed the people who take responsibility for him.

It’s hardly as if you are burning the money on vodka and cocaine FFS.

Hold your stance and good luck x

Our camps cost £25 for kids. Adult leaders pay £5/day so £15 for the weekend. We used to pay the full price but now we've decided that adult leaders pay nothing. And I think it's more than fair. I have no idea if parents know this.

But I think it is fair enough for you to draw the line at this. If it means no camp, isn't that what the parent was aiming for?