To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

[VestaTilley]

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

None of those things actually. I just want to live in a world with less segregation, and don't believe it makes women safer.

I also don't want to be defined as a woman, although I've no objection to the label. But I don't want my biology to define me. I'm a human, who happened to be born in a female body. That's been good in some ways, bad in others. I've never wanted to change it, but I'm not particularly attached to the label or the concept.

Curious about what?

I've got to go somewhere else now but when I come back there WILL be more from me on my first-hand experience of how easily a disabled or other vulnerable person can be manipulated with praise and "cupboard love".

Genuine question. Do transgender female to male receive opposition to frequenting male toilets, obviously not for the same reasons. I sympathise greatly with transgender rights but admit I'm ambivalent about the use of public toilets. As mentioned I don't agree generally with unisex toilets & where possible there should be male, female & gender neutral to make it fair & give 'everyone' a choice.

I'm not sure that you necessarily have the legal right to have donor egg IVF.

If you can afford it, then it's not illegal to pay for such treatment, but it's not actually a right.

I know that things have changed in Scotland since the days that I was still hoping to have a family. I recall that a consultant mistakenly offered me IVF (with my own eggs) when I was 40, when he came to give me the results of my laparoscopy. Then it was 'Oh. I'm sorry. I've just noticed your date of birth...you can't get that on the NHS...'

Since then, the age has been increased from 38 to 42 here. If you're 39 or over you can only get one round of treatment on the Scottish NHS. However, IVF treatment isn't a legal right for anyone - it's something that you can have if you fulfil certain criteria.

Update on my previous post. It goes without saying there should be disabled toilets everywhere. They are always secure & no threat to anyone.

I had 4 rounds of ICSI in my mid twenties with my ex husband, no pregnancies and OHSS twice. Then got aggressive breast cancer at 39 and early onset menopause. I firmly believe that my cancer is linked to the IVF

I do get that actually. I'm neurodiverse myself. But I do believe people with autism are capable of giving consent to medical procedures, and will accept an egg from anyone the clinic has deemed acceptable as a donor, having been through the appropriate checks and counselling. I said I wouldn't discriminate against a neurodiverse person, not that I would exploit any potential vulnerability.

I don't think neurodiverse adults are children incapable of making their own decisions.

Since then, the age has been increased from 38 to 42 here. If you're 39 or over you can only get one round of treatment on the Scottish NHS. However, IVF treatment isn't a legal right for anyone - it's something that you can have if you fulfil certain criteria.

It's also often denied to women above a set BMI, and women whose partners have children. I'm sure there are other reasons but they are two that some areas go by.

Whatever it was that left you irritated or enraged. As in the bit I quoted.

Sure. I don't have the right to free treatment. I'm too old where I live (not UK.) I have to pay. I also obviously don't have the right to compel anyone to give me their eggs, but I do have the right to receive those that have been willingly given. There are laws surrounding that though, so it's not simply not prohibited, it is allowed within the framework of the law.

I'm probably going to have the treatment in a different country to that in which I live though, because I prefer the legal framework there. So I'm not just exploiting a free for all. I'm making active, carefully considered choices based on what I think is the healthiest context.

I didn't see her post about that, still catching up on this thread. I stand by everything else in my post.

Generally, when I hear about gender critical stuff it makes me feel either irritated or enraged. Irritated if they make a comment I consider vapid, enraged when they hurt or intimidate people.

You seem to be conflating the right to free treatment with the right to treatment. They are different. I generally believe in free healthcare for all, but understand why restrictions on IVF treatment under public healthcare systems are in place. Something doesn't have to be free to be a right.

Generally, when I hear about gender critical stuff it makes me feel either irritated or enraged. Irritated if they make a comment I consider vapid, enraged when they hurt or intimidate people.

Oh well, we can't have everything how we want it. I expect you're going to be more enraged and irritated increasingly, not less. Because those pesky boring women you want to distance yourself from in a mistaken belief that you can will biological sex into not mattering in any more will keep campaigning for women's rights as equal citizens to men, whatever vapidly absurd comments TRAs make and however much misogynistic abuse they sling our way.

You seem to be conflating the right to free treatment with the right to treatment. They are different. I generally believe in free healthcare for all, but understand why restrictions on IVF treatment under public healthcare systems are in place. Something doesn't have to be free to be a right.

I was simply adding two reasons why women often cannot have IVF on the NHS. Cost for private treatment is often prohibitive.

I'm terribly sorry that happened to you, but there is no evidence for a link.

I'm by no means a wealthy person. I'm pouring everything I have financially into this, at the expense of, for example, buying a house. Fortunately where I live renting is much cheaper than the UK, and protections for tenants much more robust, so I have a lovely, and stable, home. But I'm on a low income and have no assets to speak of, just enough from savings and a small cash inheritance to afford a couple of goes at donor egg IVF. And I can do that because I moved somewhere with a very low cost of living, even though it's not where I actually want to be.

In relation to your question, it was a police cell, but was not single occupancy. I was in there with two other people.

I fully accept that the gender critical will continue to irritate and enrage me on the occasions i stumble upon you. I suspect that in the long term a different view will prevail, but I'm certainly not expecting you all to disappear any time soon.

I suspect that in the long term a different view will prevail

Support for males in women's spaces is going down, not up, according to polling. So it's unlikely.

In relation to your question, it was a police cell, but was not single occupancy. I was in there with two other people.

While I accept that must have been distressing, you weren't actually in prison, were you. You got arrested. I would hope you wouldn't be put in the same cell as a 6 foot 2 rapist in any case for any amount of time though. You might like to have some sympathy for women around the world who find themselves with these males, given that a considerable proportion of "trans women" are sex offenders.

And yes, it is a lot more than if they were actually women, which of course they are not.

I suspect that's a blip. Unfortunately lots of right wing populist causes are enjoying surges of support right now. I hope that things will change. We shall see.

I seem to recall that Brexit was awfully popular just a few years ago...

Just as I figured. You got nothing.

We're out of the EU though, aren't we? Are you expecting that we will go back? I fear you might be in for disappointment on that score too.