Relative burned through funds and now mooching

[coldcallerbaiter]

AIBU to get involved? I have not said too much to him yet

So my cousin lost his parents in his 20s and got easily a million pounds in those days. He is around 60 now. Never had a job, playboy lifestyle in the Far East, womanising, divorces, no kids. Now he is back in the UK and has nowhere to go. Will not admit he is skint but then hints to live with my elderly mum in her spare room. He is not entitled to benefits as he never lived here and did not pay in or get credits. I do not know if he will even get a state pension later on. I think he should get a job and pay his rent somewhere but I doubt he will as working is beneath him, especially as it would be unskilled stuff, he wants to mooch off her. He has expensive tastes too and is in and out at night probably to bars. My mum is now phoning me worried in case he will not leave, also her quiet life is being disturbed

They are actually close as she was like a mother to him before he left to go abroad and were in touch all the years with visits.

Charm and sympathy are all part of coercive control. Watch him like a hawk even IF he leaves her house. Don't trust him for a second. He'll be quite happy to play a long game. Make sure he has no access to your mum's house, no spare key and that visits will be by invitation only, no dropping over randomly. Remember, he is after YOUR inheritance. Check your mum's finances, credit etc regularly. She might feel sorry for him and be foolish depending on the level of control he has on her.

You really need to register it as elder abuse, or at the very least contact your mum’s local police station and ask them about elder abuse and what the threshold for it would be.

Edited to add a link to what I’m talking about:
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/health-wellbeing/relationships-family/protection-from-abuse/

So "clear-minded and strong" that in spite of knowing he's a nasty piece of work and a chancer, he's been given weeks and weeks to find himself another mug to leech from. The OP then falls for the old chestnut of illness preventing him going (oh, I forgot: last-minute issues with his accommodation as well). He's about as genuine as a 50 pence banknote and if her mother suffers financial loss and/or other problems because of the laxity in getting him out of the house then it's pretty obvious who is to blame for not taking firm action.

Not very fair DriftingDora, these things are harder to solve when you’re in the middle of them.

OP, keep going - we are all behind you.

It’s fine, no need to defend me! I get the sentiment about kicking him out immediately. However I have to follow the tone of Dm. I do think she is at risk later, not now. I have seen how forgetfulness comes over people at that age all of a sudden they go downhill, it’s already started, she forgets conversations and I have to remind her. She has blanked out huge events and long time periods in her life. It’s frustrating as I know he will hover and she will let him, as she wants mooch in her life. I am in a no win situation as I cannot bully her for her personal viewpoint. He is already playing on my hostility and has commented to various people to establish his story. As the nice helper guy. These family friends reported back to me and tbh I am not sure who they believe.

That's so frustrating OP. And is of course precisely how coercive control works. Isolating someone from their family, positioning themselves as the "good guy" and alienating them from those able to protect them.

You're right in terms of respecting your Mum's right to independence but I think I'd rehearse a short response to those family friends that challenges his narrative. Something along the lines of "Although I don't live as close to Mum as I'd like, I'm aware of how Mooch has made himself very comfortable at Mum's at her expense. I'm concerned about her having to look after him physically & financially and am not going to stand by while he exploits her good nature and friendship."

It's such a tricky situation, especially when you're not physically close. Have you had any conversations about power of attorney etc? Do you know where her will is etc? Difficult to discuss I know but important to make sure he's not having those conversations with her if he is the user he appears to be.

I'd be really blunt at this point and tell him his parents would have been ashamed of how he's chosen to waste his inheritance on a frivolous life, with no thoughts for the future, except to feel entitled to move on to mooch off someone else in the family. In this case, your elderly mother. He's a grown man, there is zero excuse to have not learned about how life works and what he will have needed to live on as he got older.

Tell him you're not blind, you're not sympathetic, and he needs to get the hell out before you start chucking his things out the door.

He is definitely playing a long game. He knows what he's doing. He has every intention of getting full control of your mother and leaving you with nothing OP. He has already started the process of coercive control. I wouldn't pussyfoot around the 'nice guy' comments from relatives at all. You tell them straight out he is mooching from your mum and that you are having a very difficult time getting him out of the house and you won't hear a word about him being a nice guy at all. If you don't stand tough now he will have your mum's house and money.

These kind of people are ruthless, he'll have had this plan long before he even moved himself in. You need a very serious chat with your mum about him. At this stage there is no point following her tone at all. You have to protect her and yourself from him. Tell her in no uncertain terms that he is out to take her house and her money and make everyone's lives miserable and that you will be taking action whether she likes it or not.

You need to report it as coercive control and elder abuse to Police. You need to make your concerns known to Social Services. You need to have your mum tell her doctor, bank and solicitor that she is concerned he will manipulate her and exploit her financially. There needs to be a log of evidence you may need if he has her write a new will in his favour or gets her house signed over to him. You also need to arrange a POA for her as soon as you can.

His next step will be too depressed to get out of bed. How on Earth are you going to get him out then. Don't sit back another day, get him out, get his stuff out, get the locks changed and get him completely out of your life and kept well away from your mum. Don't bother with any conversation or confrontation, just get him out.

The plain truth of this whole sorry mess is that the OP's mother needed protecting from this man - he should have been given his marching orders long ago, and the OP knows it. The implications of him getting his foot firmly in the door - as he has done - and the OP's seeming unwillingness to take firm action on behalf of her mother, such as seeking police or legal advice regarding coercive control has created a situation that could have been avoided.

Whether her mother does veer between one minute accepting him as a permanent lodger and then the next minute wanting him gone we have only the OP's account, but this should not come into the equation. If there is anything remotely dubious about him - and his past life (and the OP herself has talked about this) - then he should have been outed long ago, for her mother's own long-term protection and welfare.

Your poor mother, being taken advantage of by this grifter. No doubt after a lifetime of looking after people and "being kind".

Seriously, you need to step up OP and make sure he leaves ASAP. If he's allowed to stay because he's "depressed" he will have a convenient relapse every time the idea of him leaving comes up.

No. You can't take away another adult's agency in this way. The OP's mother is mentally capable and has the right to decide over what happens in her own life. The OP can help her mother when asked, but she can't just step in and make unilateral decisions about another adult's life. It is a situation to be managed in a way that gives her mother control over what happens, but which also makes sure she is not being taken advantage of. It seems like the OP is on her way to doing that.

To all saying OP needs to 'step up', her mother has not been determined mentally incompetent. OP can't unilaterally decide to kick this man out if her mother permits him to stay. If OP does go to the police or the authorities, all her mother has to do is be coherent and tell the police that she is allowing him to stay and that she is not being 'taken advantage of'.

We all know that's how it is in situations of abuse of any kind (other than when there are physical injuries) or if someone needs care but doesn't want it. If the person doesn't take action, then there's really nothing to be done until the point is reached where they are ruled incompetent or become an actual danger to themselves.

All OP can do is work within the parameters her mother is setting, 'counsel' her to take a harder line, and watch carefully in the future. Should she let this relative know how she feels in no uncertain terms, sure. But she can't order him out when her mother is taking a 'softly softly' approach.

@sonjadog

Xpost with you! Absolutely right on!

You clearly have your mother's best interests at heart. Stick to your guns!

Quote from the OP's original post of 04/11/23:

"My mum is now phoning me worried in case he will not leave, also her quiet life is being disturbed".

The OP then went on to tell us that there are some distinctly dubious aspects to his previous 'history' and that even her own daughter describes him as 'creepy'. Then there is the little matter of how he has got through so much of his money in such a short time, with no visible signs of what he's used it for. If this isn't sounding clear warnings, I don't know what would. Something here doesn't add up.

Then there is the question of virtually allowing him to set his own schedule for leaving, instead of giving him a much earlier, non-negotiable date (the OP didn't post until 4/11/23 - how much leeway has he had and he's still calling the shots?).

I suppose the next logical step is that he moves a lady friend in (place your bets).

I can only presume that in spite of the rhetoric OP and/or her mother are quite happy allowing him to set his own agenda - in which case, why bother to post asking for advice?

I rest my case.

That's what I keep thinking. He wants OP's mother's house and he has plans to get it. All it takes is him establishing residence before it ends up costing thousands to get him out, IF you can get him out.

I've seen his type and dealt with it too. Not fun once they get their hooks in.

@coldcallerbaiter Any update? Have you asked him what the paperwork hold up is? Maybe be proactive and sit down with him to sort it out, rather than letting him give you vague responses to his plans.

I think OP and her mum really don't realise how ruthless these kind of people are and how they will go to any lengths to get what they want. Look at how he just announced he was moving in to care for OP's mum, straight away distancing OP, ignoring that she was on the scene. He's come up with excuse after excuse not to leave and dictates to OP and her mum when he'll be visiting etc IF they ever get him out. He's spinning stories to cover himself to other family members. This isn't just a pain in the neck over staying his welcome, this is a cold calculating devious person with every intention of leaving OPs mum with nothing, he'll have OPs inheritance, waste that too and then move on to another vulnerable old person.

I agree @Cosmosforbreakfast he's very calculating.

@Cosmosforbreakfast He has no other vulnerable old person!

To answer some questions, POA not sorted yet, will do it once he is gone.

I cannot sort the accommodation issues, he would say he is doing it -dm said he will be gone next week. I will take her word for it.

Dm would flip if I reported this and she got questioned by authorities!

To those who said we should not have let him stay. He only started the carer talk after he moved in. Dm had already estimated beforehand that he could be with her up to 3 months due to emigrating anyway. She started to complain due to a mixture of the carer talk and his habits wearing her down. His habits hadn’t changed from previous visits, but started to piss her off after a few weeks. He also started the low on funds talk, this was all new.

Mooch made some huge assumptions, without asking us first. He sold his last UK property recently before emigrating. He was a landlord up til then. He left the property empty for years on and off as he wasn’t bothered to get tenants, he let friends stay there for free. He never stayed there himself, always went to dm. Bizarre behaviour.

He gave away money over the years to various wife/gf families, paid for medical treatments for their families

So I have no idea of his bank balances.

He must think I am less in need of my inheritance! I would ideally like dm to spend freely on herself, then whatever is left will go to my 3 kids. So no I do not need it for myself. Mooch I am guessing thinks I have a dh and a tidy life. Again huge assumptions to think therefore he might as well benefit due to presenting us with a fait accompli situation - but we have watched him make each decision himself over the years to not look after his funds. Plus we told him things were unwise occasionally, he never listened.

Cosmosforbreakfast · Today 12:18

I think OP and her mum really don't realise how ruthless these kind of people are and how they will go to any lengths to get what they want.

As I've said in a previous post, there's something about the OP's responses to this situation that don't add up. On one hand, she says it is causing her mother distress and comes on to ask for advice, but the next minute she says she feels that the impetus must come from her mother (which is disingenuous, to say the least). Also questionable that anyone would consider going away on holiday, leaving their elderly mother to cope with a situation that may cause her harm. OP's response was that the person in question isn't violent and would never harm her mother, but she's seemingly oblivious of the fact that 'harm' is not just physical, it takes many forms, including financial.

Edited, having read the OP's last post: What proof do you have that he let his tenants stay in the house he owned 'for free'? So once again, you are being gullible and believing that he truly has no money? And by the way, your mother may have no choice about 'speaking to the authorities' if the authorities come knocking - have you asked yourself where he's getting any money from?🙄

Yes it was a prepaid family holiday! Yes we went, why should my whole family miss out and lose thousands over this? Me missing the holiday would have made no difference whatsoever, unless my aim was to forcibly evict him right then, and that was never possible as dm had her own timeline. He didn’t take her bank or house whilst I was away.

What this thread echoed back to me was I wasn’t imagining he is a wrongun. I have been as balanced as I can be, I have also mentioned his good points and the family long-standing relationship. I was always going to evict him. I will do so next week if he is not out. I am not looking forward to my inner screaming banshee coming out. Dh is coming too, but has been told not to touch him, last thing he needs is a criminal record. I am on a waiting list for surgery. I am attempting to stay calm as my family need me.

OP there are always vulnerable elderly people, he won't limit himself to relatives.

Of course you weren't imagining he was a wrong one, alarm bells were ringing when he said he'd look after your mum, didn't he say this at a funeral before he moved in?

I understand where you're coming from, these kind of people don't really reveal who they are until the damage is done. They plan ahead, they play a long game. They won't let anyone get in the way. You may think they'll be away and be no more trouble but they don't work that way.

I really hope everything goes as planned and you can get him out of the house and get his claws out of your poor mum. He knows you have a lot going on , your own life to deal with, your mum's reluctance to do anything, it just makes it easier for him unfortunately.

Fingers crossed for next week OP. One thing that you could do is to ensure that those around your Mum / family members are aware of his attempts to control your Mum and her money. To date he's been able to present himself as your Mum's "rescuer" so I'd be knocking that on the head very frankly. Play dirty for want of a better phrase.

Have some open conversations with those around her, get them on side and protecting your Mum from a man who's unexpectedly rocked up and is living off her and having her look after him.

Let others know that you see his sudden appearance as a deliberate attempt to live off her and control her - frame him as a potential user. There are lots of examples on this thread of how his behaviour is controlling of her and you need to reframe this for others so that they see him as a potential abuser rather than a saviour. He's doing the running at the moment so it's now time for you to plant the seed of doubt. You sound like a compassionate person and I'll bet that's how the wider family sees you. Maybe:
"I'm really worried about Mum. Since M has arrived she's had to finance / look after him. He's been saying he wants to be Mum's carer which horrifies her. She's finding it so stressful but feels too intimidated / scared to say anything to him"
We're so worried that his aim is to take over her house - he's actually told " etc etc.
"We're trying to get him to move out and leave her in peace but he's determined to keep living off her......"

His actions show precisely what he's doing - but he's presenting himself as her saviour so you need to reframe him as her abuser.
Maybe you and DH make a list of the things he's doing and then pick out the most powerful points and start sharing them. Then when you go to force him out, the wider family is clear that you're defending your Mum against someone using her for his own needs.

Sorry that's a bit long 😊

I really hope it works out ok OP rotten situation to be in.