to not like DH to snap his belt at DC, even in a jokey way?

[Pollyputtheteaon]

Today DC was being a bit challenging so DH snapped his belt at her pretending he was going to hit her with it. I have genuinely never in my life heard a belt be snapped and it's quite loud! He had folded it in half and sort of pulled it taut and slackened it to make the noise.

I have always associated that sort of gesture with domestic violence and it isn't a theme (even as a joke, not that one should joke about it) I want in our home. DC is only 7 months so she won't understand at all but I feel like if I don't mention it it's just something he might do later?

I asked DH conversationally if it was something his dad did and if he was ever hit. He said sometimes. DH very rarely talks about his dad and he died before DH and I even met. But from the sounds of it MIL was controlled, DH was hit. Before I knew this, MIL came across as quite a nervous, timid lady and I cAn definitely see how that happened... Anyway DH always says he is very different from his dad or he will describe his dad as a very traditional man etc. DH is generally a very gentle person and i don't think I've ever heard him even raise his voice. My own dad is very similar and quite a gentle giant, he never raised his hand or even when fighting with my mum he never came across menacing. That's just some background.

AIBU to tell DH not to snap his belt ever again meaning someone was going to get hit, even in a jokey way?

@Dutch1e your traumatic childhood has messed up your benchmark for parenting

I hope the chat goes well. I can see how that will be difficult to raise if he is not open to feedback about his parenting — but raise it you must. There are reasons why an otherwise decent and caring person might have been behaved so inappropriately, but I can totally see why the red flags are waving.

Ideally he will be mortified at how his ‘joke’ has gone down and at pains to reassure you that he’d never lay a finger on your children. It would be even better if he would also agree to consider some therapy to process the events of his childhood. However, he is unlikely to agree to all of this at once (as you’ve said, he is prickly about his parenting) and is likely to be defensive. But as a bottom line, I think it is important that you hear it from him that he knows it’s not ok to hit/strike your children.

He might (in his defensiveness) suggest that you are overreacting to his ‘joke’. Just for the record, you are not. I can’t think of a single person who would think it was ok to snap a belt at a baby, even in jest. He may have no role models himself and/or just be wildly off piste with his humour, but even so, he still needs to understand that that’s a) it’s not funny, b) it alarms you and c) if he makes similar kinds comments in front of other people, they will phone social services.

X

Is there any book in particular you would recommend?

I don't know the different labels for the parenting types you've mentioned although I sort of get the gist by what you've described and I have been reading a fair few baby books. Maybe this stuff is yet to come though eg. My books are mostly the 'your baby week by week' and weaning books. I'm very happy to read up on different parenting styles. I would also like to raise DC differently to how my own parents raised me. Mine really bubble wrapped me and as a result I need to work very hard to be assertive and have to try hard to be "brave or courageous" when doing things solo.

Good grief, no that is screamingly inappropriate. And cringey (who 'jokes' like that?!)

Hope your chat with him goes ok.

Very inappropriate. Who on earth thinks threatening violence to a 7 month old baby is funny?!

Thank you all.

I'm itching to have a conversation with him but all this time DH has been at work and now we have my sister over. She will hopefully be gone by 9pm-ish 🤞 thanks everyone for your advice.

This would really alarm me. A man who was abused himself would either react so that doing anything remotely similar to his own chid would be unthinkable

OR

he would be automatically using similar techniques, maybe at first semi amusingly, but soon in earnest as his temper is tried.

You need to think long and hard about whether this is a man you would want to have access to your child. His automatic responses are way, way wrong.

You need to tell him that if he ever tries something similar again ( in jest or not) you will be off. And mean it.

Personally I would have found this quite funny. I was actually belted growing up and have a very dark sense of humour as a result (a lot of abused kids do).

I agree, I would have taken it as a joke from his tone. My father used to say be would "brain me" one of these days and I never took it seriously because he'd never once raised a hand to me.

I think it's fine to generally make jokey threats of violence, me and DH do it to each other but we are comfortable in that it's not a real threat. Sometimes he's annoyed me while I'm chopping vegetables and I've appeared in the doorway with the knife in a raised hand, murderous look on face, as if I might launch it at him - he then pretends to be scared "Oh no, I'm sorry, I'll do anything, please don't hurt me" and we laugh about it and have a joke.

The belt might be too far with a child as it's a common abuse thing and there will be an age where a noise like that will genuinely scare your child. As someone else says, there is an age where children take this seriously as they don't know you're joking. Some kids are far more sensitive than others too.

Tell him not to do it again and see how it goes OP. What's his humour like generally? I quite like shock dark humour in comedy anyway, but it does only work if everyone gets that you aren't genuinely like that.

It’s really horrifying and disturbing tbh

It shows how his mind is working towards your child. And she’s only a baby.

He needs to get some counselling before she gets older and is actually capable of being “challenging”.

Thank you, I appreciate your thorough psychological assessment.

This is a great response. My youngest is 7 months as well and is cutting her first tooth and the past three nights have had hysterical screaming when attempting to put her to bed. She’s been a nightmare but she’s a baby, her teeth hurt and she just wants to be held (standing up of course!) I’d be really upset if my DH did what yours did.

As an aside, the only thing that seems to be settling her at the minute is Lord of the Rings. No idea why but my DH has just bought the Hobbit trilogy as well just in case it carries on over the weekend.

My father used to say be would "brain me" one of these days and I never took it seriously because he'd never once raised a hand to me.

That's the crux of it for me too. That, and the fact that OP said her DH was tidying up and the belt was just lying there. It was an off-the-cuff joke, not a planned thing where a belt had to be deliberately found and drawn.

At 7 months I'd be really worried about what this means for how he will behave in the future. Will it be even worse if you have a boy?

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I can’t even express how unhappy I’d be at someone snapping a belt at a baby! Ffs! So, so wrong!

My dad sounds much like your dh's.

He died when I was 21 and I don't miss him.

He was a bully and I remember being hit with a belt when I was about 5 and I weed myself.

What I could have possibly done at that age to warrant that, I have no idea.

But this cannot be tolerated. He thinks it's a joke, but it's not funny at all.

Who the fuck threatens a 7 month old baby with the belt?

A joke has a punchline which everyone finds funny. How is this a joke?

Ask him to explain the joke to you. He won't be able to.

LTB. You do not want your daughter growing up with a man that threatens serious physical violence to a child for any reason, let alone because a baby's gums hurt?!

Threats of violence is still classed as domestic violence OP.

I have to say it's odd to call a 7 mo challenging. And no it's not acceptable for him to snap his belt and threaten her. I would imagine it's that he grew up in a family where that was normal and although he doesn't agree with hitting DC (I assume) on an unconscious level it is still normal and this is where this came from. I think he needs therapy but also just you being very clear it is unacceptable.

Not quite the same but my DP's dad abused his mum and him. Sometimes off hand he will say something to me like 'get in the kitchen where you belong' as a joke. Or he'll say to me about my DC 'if I did that I'd get the belt'. He very much on a conscious level doesn't want to be like his dad but it seems to sit there below the surface. I've never met his dad as he'd passed away before we met. But when he says these things I say 'hello dad's name' as it feels like a different person is talking.

I think your DH needs to deal with this as a 7mo won't understand but soon she will. If my DP ever threatened my DC I would finish with him.

Good luck OP, keep us posted 🤞

@Pollyputtheteaon in terms of books, I liked the "How to Talk so your kids will listen..." book. And any of the science and evidence based books for parents about child development. Generally not anything by "big names" or TV personalities!

For parenting styles, there's a lot online that explains the different types. Some add Neglectful/uninvolved as a parenting type and some add in Helicopter/over-involved as another type. It can get quite academic if you're interested, as there are studies into the outcomes for children as a result of each style.

As your baby becomes a walking talking boundary challenging toddler it's important that you are both on the same page about parenting approaches.

I remember my Dad doing this with his belt when I was about five or six, normally chasing me up the stairs for talking when the news was on.
I was absolutely terrified.

My dad used to ask me whether I wanted the slipper or belt and use it on me. My mum thinks I'm imagining it. I know I didn't.

Your mum is gaslighting you. That’s nearly as bad as your dad being so cruel!

I would bring it up as a discussion rather than as something you are going to tell him not to do. Bring it up with a comment that it bothered you and you want to talk about it. Avoid saying he snapped it at her or inflammatory words that make it sounds like he was intending to harm his child. Ask him what his thinking was in what he said and ask him if he can see why it bothered you. Tell him how you felt but don't speak for him about his motivations or how he feels etc. Tell him about how you know it is important to you both that your daughter feels safe and that in that moment, you didn't feel safe. You can acknowledge that you know he was joking and not intending to hurt her but that you are worried about threats of violence being used even in a joking way to manage stressful behaviour. Ask if he can see your view and where you are coming from. Validate his feelings and where he is coming from. Then discuss a solution.

Will be far more effective than you accusing him of almost harming your baby and then telling him what to do or not do.

This is concerning. This behaviour is abusive. Your baby is too young to understand but that isn't really the point, in a few short months they will be old enough to understand even if they can't yet speak. Good parenting comes from a place of wanting to love, comfort and teach children through relationship whereas abusive parenting tries to control by way of threats, bribes, shouting and violence.

I have had a similar experience in that a man who seemed mild and reasonable before children behaves in an abusive manner as a parent. The unrealistic expectations for the age of the child ring especially true. It is because he himself had an abusive father. People tend to parent in the same way they experienced themselves, unless they are self aware and make a conscious effort to do things differently. I think people who experienced abuse as children are often triggered by what they perceive as "bad behaviour" from their own children but are actually just normal, things such as young babies crying, toddlers shouting or refusing to co-operate etc, because their own parents were intolerant of these normal behaviours. In addition they are not open minded about changing their parenting style because to accept they are wrong in their parenting is also to accept they had an abusive childhood experience, which is a very difficult thing to admit.

I think you have to call him out every time he does something like this to let both him and the baby know it's unacceptable. Do you have family support? I would avoid leaving him alone with the baby for now.

In terms of parenting, books by Janet Lansbury are great, very straightforward and easy to follow. There are parenting courses run by local children's centres, they often have short videos online which go through things like how to set boundaries, how to apply consequences, how to listen to your child etc. I suggest the Philippa Perry book "The book you wish your parents had read", I found that quite eye opening for my situation.

The bottom line is that patterns repeat. Be extremely vigilant as the chances are he will slip into abusive parenting unless he is willing to make the effort to change. Definitely don't get pregnant again unless this issue is resolved as it's 10x harder with 2