Page 5 | ANOTHER Rochdale Grooming gang - beyond horrific.

BlowingInTheWind82 · 2023-10-31T22:51:28+00:00

What is wrong with these men, ffs. Those poor poor girls. The abuse and assaults. They are children, why why why did this happen. [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67279790 BBC Article to the sentencing ]]

Girlswillbetwirls · 01/11/2023 15:54

This isn’t ‘whataboutery’, this is genuinely asking why men are the problem in sexual crimes, but only looking at ethnicity statistics when those men aren’t white

This. I agree @BodegaSushi .

And for people saying we can’t speak about it for fear of being accused of being racist to Asian men there have been many documentaries and need articles about it. And constant social media commentary on it.

I used to work with children in care so I was particularly passionate about commenting about Rochdale etc where kids in care were targeted. The angle I was looking at was how certain girls OF ALL RACES eg. looked after young people are especially failed by their families first and foremost, but also by society and authorities.

I regretted it as soon as I posted as certain racists piled on under my tweet making racist comments which wasn’t the point! Even if these “Asian grooming gangs” were all stopped, there’s still all the other sexual abuse that goes on there committed equally or even more by white /black etc men

Surely we can take them all seriously and focus on rooting ALL types of abuse out?

If your focus on combating child abuse is purely on the “type ” of sexual abuse that you think involves mainly Asian men, and you only mention race/culture when it’s a sexual abuse category where white men aren’t the main culprits, your motivations are clear.

ohsuzannah · 01/11/2023 15:54

@OnlyFannys
I'm just reading a book about Cyril Smith. He did quite a lot of it himself, and that was a long time ago 😡

jammysmol · 01/11/2023 15:56

goldfinchfan · 01/11/2023 14:48

it is part of their culture they teach their sons and nephews,

apparently white girls are either slags or whores !!!!
as told to my teen DD. i regret not going to the police.
Certain religions are against our culture as too lenient. they don't want their women to be like us.

why are we not clamping down on this?

I saw an interview years ago on BBC breakfast, where they spoke to a young woman who wore a head covering. I think the intention was to ask her if she felt it was imposed on her or if it was her free choice. She said it was her choice but that she wore it so people would know she wasn't just " any girl from the street" which seemed to imply that any girl not covering her head was a slut and cheap. I think this is quite a disgusting attitude.

I have often felt France are too harsh in not allowing people freedom of expression of their religion in the form of Islamic head coverings and if someone wants to wear a head covering or crucifix or whatever as a sign of their faith I have no issue with that. I do think that imagining that doing so puts you above other people or in someway gives you a right to look down on or mistreat others is pretty reprehensible.

It is a serious issue if these attitudes proliferate in the UK, although I would believe and hope that they are a minority attitude amongst people of any faith and background.

Girlswillbetwirls · 01/11/2023 16:03

And the comments about police being worried they are being racist is laughable. This is NOT the reason it went on for so long without intervention.

Police may worry about many things but being racist is not one of them.

Ffs a common lie they tell to black men is that they can smell weed in their car even when they can’t ( I’ve had friends who’ve never even smoked a cigarette had that lie levelled at them ). Or that they have a description of a suspect matching their description when often the ONLY similarity will be skin tone but everything else is different. Or stopping black or Asian men driving nice cars.

If the girls involved were white middle class girls whose parents were councillors, teachers, doctors etc the police would’ve taken action quicker.

Many of them were looked after kids and/or in highly dysfunctional and deprived families.
Unfortunately many police write girls like this off from a young age. Which is disgusting and vile and society needs to have a broader discussion about how Looked After Children & other high risk children are treated.

Statistics show police are more likely to stop,search and brutalise men of colour, and they are more likely to face harsher sentencing if convicted in a court of law, and less likely to get released early. Literally no part of the criminal justice from police to the court favours Asian men or non-white men of other races, so can this BS stop being repeated.

BodegaSushi · 01/11/2023 16:09

Resilience · 01/11/2023 15:52

Horrifying topic but interesting thread.

Culture and ethnicity are relevant but only in terms of understanding how criminals perpetrate so we can stop them. Different methods are used by different criminals. As others have pointed out, the common denominator is the sex of the offender. The underlying psychology that women are lesser is what matters.

The western expectation that women are groomed to within an inch of their lives is the flip side of the same coin that demands women dress modestly. Both are based on the idea that women are defined in terms of their value to men and seeks to control their sexual availability. Yes the UK has better equality laws and better protections for women undoubtedly but as many women sadly know, there are a great deal of men out there who abuse women and children.

A very alarming you.gov study conducted with the End Violence Against Women Coalition found:

&bull;	A third (33%) of people in Britain think it isn&rsquo;t usually rape if a woman is pressured into having sex but there is no physical violence
&bull;	A third of men think if a woman has flirted on a date it generally wouldn&rsquo;t count as rape, even if she hasn&rsquo;t explicitly consented to sex (compared with 21% of women)
&bull;	A third of men also believe a woman can&rsquo;t change her mind after sex has started
&bull;	Almost a quarter (24%) think that sex without consent in long-term relationships is usually not rape (1).

We have to be very careful not to confuse cultural patterns with prevalence. Many white abusers groom through existing relationships or online, making it much harder to spot.

The real sadness here is that it was actually very visible but no one cared for so long. Says a lot about how we view the more vulnerable in our society, which most of these girls were.

The problem is men and their cross-cultural belief that they are entitled to control women.

excellent post

Grotbag81 · 01/11/2023 16:18

John Shahid Ghani is mixed south asian and white, he was raised by his Father's asian family and is the big brother of Mohammad Ghani (also sentenced).

For those discussing race.

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 01/11/2023 16:32

Livelovebehappy · 01/11/2023 00:29

Ugly scumbags too. Guess the only way they felt they were going to get anyone to have sex with them was if they drugged and manipulated under age girls.

Really? You think this comment is appropriate?
Would it have been better if they'd looked like Brad Pitt then?

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 01/11/2023 16:40

I supported a young girl in derby 20+ years ago- older Muslim 'boyfriend', she was 17. He showered her with gold and other gifts, then wanted her to have sex with his friends too. She refused, so he locked her in a cupboard and wanted her to agree, as he'd convinced himself that this wouldn't be illegal. She waited till he was drunk and asleep, kicked her way out, and ran to the Police station.
She was flattered at the start. He seemed mature and sophisticated compared to 17yo boys. Truly awful.

Nepmarthiturn · 01/11/2023 16:49

Kpo58 · 31/10/2023 23:53

What depressingly light sentences these men are getting. They aren't suddenly going to become less dangerous in 15-20 years, especially if they get reduced for "good" behaviour.

Exactly. These sentences would be a joke if for a single rape of an adult, especially if let out after serving half of it. None of these men who have repeatedly raped children should ever be released.

Nepmarthiturn · 01/11/2023 17:06

Sharontheodopolodous · 01/11/2023 10:25

My son works in security in a hospital up north (my home town)

My mother knows a family-weve all met the type at some point-rough,allow the kids to do what they want to make life easier at least one family member in prison at any one time

Mum had 4 kids taken away through sheer neglect-and within 5 years,she had a dd

Ss for some reason where very keen to keep them together,even though mum had lost 4 kids to the system and nothing had changed

Mum kept the dd-and the kid wasn't shelded from anything-from the age she understood,she knew

uncle up for trying to rape 14 year old girls?

Dd (aged 5/6) could tell you in detail about the case

Brother up for beating another bloke up?

The dd (aged about 9) told me all about it-the list was endless

I rang ss endless times but they didn't do much-just had a word with mum and mum didn't stop-just promised she would Shield her dd

I went nc with my family,so by default,I lost touch with them

Until about a year ago

My son rang me and it went like this

Ds-mum,do you know xx?
Me-no why?
Ds-ok,do you know xy?she's changed her name-her mum died last year
Me-yes,why?
Ds-shes been beaten so badly she's in hospital
Me-jesus,is she ok?(blah blah blah),how old is she now?
Ds-15-her boyfriend is waiting for her-ive just had to Sling him out-he was refusing to leave her side

A long story short-the 'boyfriend' is a Muslim,45 years old and it couldn't be clearer he's her bloody pimp If he had it flashing on his forehead

He was hanging around so she didnt escape

My son rang the police twice-and was told,twice,that they know her,they,they know him,there is nothing they can do as she's 'one of those girls',she's making 'her own lifestyle choices',it's 'her choice if she wants to see him' and 'if we pick him up,there's no proof'

He rang ss-and was told the same-her sw didn't want to know-just kept trotting out about 'lifestyle choices'

She woke up,walked out and is now back with him-she thinks he's her boyfriend-they've been together for the last 3 years

Her friends are 'dating' his friends (I'm not saying they are dating-its what they think)

This is a problem in every single place in the uk-its everywhere

I moved from my hometown to down south,and see it a lot-police do nothing (maybe 'have a word') and they carry on as they know they can get away with it

How does this happen? The police must be aware that any 45 year old man "dating" a 15 year old is a rapist?! And for 3 years, so she was 12 when he started raping her. The law is clear that it is rape, clear on coercive control etc, so I genuinely don't understand how the police or the social worker can justify their position legally? Children do not get to make "lifestyle choices" because they are children!

Vettrianofan · 01/11/2023 17:07

Livelovebehappy · 01/11/2023 00:29

Ugly scumbags too. Guess the only way they felt they were going to get anyone to have sex with them was if they drugged and manipulated under age girls.

Ugly in so many ways.

Resilience · 01/11/2023 17:23

@Sharontheodopolodous - that's worthy of a complaint to the police. Not only is the underlying attitude shocking but the fact that they shared that level of sensitive information with your son is also deeply worrying.

Resilience · 01/11/2023 17:35

How does this happen? The police must be aware that any 45 year old man "dating" a 15 year old is a rapist?! And for 3 years, so she was 12 when he started raping her. The law is clear that it is rape, clear on coercive control etc, so I genuinely don't understand how the police or the social worker can justify their position legally? Children do not get to make "lifestyle choices" because they are children!

@Nepmarthiturn - if you look at any of the serious case reviews into CSE or the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA) reports those themes are depressingly consistent.

My old force had a historic CSE ring. The analysis of failings across all agencies was shocking. One teen presented to hospital with repeated STIs, another requiring abortion. Staff were concerned about being 'judgmental' about teen sexual activity and breaching confidentiality. Police and SWs made the comments about lifestyle choices." That makes you realise how others viewed these girls whether progressive liberals on one side seeking to make excuses or old-fashioned conservative types on the other trying to victim blame.

No one asked the right questions. No one thought "if this was MY much-loved 14 year old, what I want to happen?"

MrsMarzetti · 01/11/2023 17:46

Dweetfidilove · 01/11/2023 15:41

These are the times I wish for the American sentencing system.

How can they get such little time for those horrific acts that will stay with these girls for an eternity ☹️.

You know the reason why

RudsyFarmer · 01/11/2023 17:47

When men can put babies in ovens to die then are we at all shocked they can rape and drug girls? Honestly no level of depravity shocks me anymore. I am becoming numb to it all.

Captainspaulding · 01/11/2023 17:47

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Dweetfidilove · 01/11/2023 18:11

MrsMarzetti · 01/11/2023 17:46

You know the reason why

Show quote history

If you’re alluding to the race/religious factor I can see how it’s argued that they are not being prosecuted out of fear…

Once we’ve gone through to a guilty verdict, however, there’s nothing that warrants these ridiculously low sentences for these animals.

Same as seen here or when sentencing the other set of reprobates killing women and children.

Original poster

BlowingInTheWind82 · 01/11/2023 18:28

It’s so entrenched in these men that these girls are merely objects that I wish there was a form of chemical castration that could be undertaken so they would lose all sexual urges.

I am of a South Asian background (although not Pakistani) girls grow up into a world of shame, we are born into being a burden. I recall when I was having my daughter my own grandfather said to me how worthless a girl is.

Across Pakistani and Indian culture white girls are generally seen as ‘easier’ not ‘pure’.

OP posts:

Dweetfidilove · 01/11/2023 18:32

BlowingInTheWind82 · 01/11/2023 18:28

It’s so entrenched in these men that these girls are merely objects that I wish there was a form of chemical castration that could be undertaken so they would lose all sexual urges.

I am of a South Asian background (although not Pakistani) girls grow up into a world of shame, we are born into being a burden. I recall when I was having my daughter my own grandfather said to me how worthless a girl is.

Across Pakistani and Indian culture white girls are generally seen as ‘easier’ not ‘pure’.

I’d support that too because these sentences are a joke.

We are either not prosecuting sexual crimes or we’re slapping wrists - ridiculous!

RudsyFarmer · 01/11/2023 19:06

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TheThingIsYeah · 01/11/2023 19:52

Social conditions for white working class girls and boys needs to be studied, as things aren't going well for them at all

@Gingernaut I totally agree, but there's no way this will happen whilst the white middle classes cheer on their demise from the sidelines. Has any other race of people so enthusiastically embraced the self-destruct button?

sergeantsalt · 01/11/2023 20:27

TheThingIsYeah · 01/11/2023 19:52

Social conditions for white working class girls and boys needs to be studied, as things aren't going well for them at all

@Gingernaut I totally agree, but there's no way this will happen whilst the white middle classes cheer on their demise from the sidelines. Has any other race of people so enthusiastically embraced the self-destruct button?

No one gets brownie points for their cause. I can’t remember who it was who wanted to set up a scholarship for deprived white boys and wasn’t allowed to

Original poster

BlowingInTheWind82 · 01/11/2023 20:36

It’s interesting reading what countries do use chemical castration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration

Chemical castration - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration

OP posts:

Arbutusflower · 01/11/2023 20:42

TintinHadToBeMale · 01/11/2023 09:47

We’re not allowed to discuss that much are we @Thisweeksname

Men from very sexist cultures, which have been empowered to bring over their cultural institutions. Men individually empowered by those sexist institutions. Men who have no connection to the white working class heritage and struggles or the land here. Men empowered further by the internet and pornification of women including celebrities. Men therefore brought up to view poor white girls as naturally worthless sluts and whores, fit for nothing.

The white working class struggle? FGS a large slice of the white male working class spent much of their Friday and Saturday nights beating up their wives and/or children after coming home drunk [source: any number of Police and medical reports of the last 150 yrs]. Hardly a superior "culture"

Racist drivel and romanticised rubbish.

Arbutusflower · 01/11/2023 20:45

The BNP voters are out in force I see.