to think suits are inappropriate for sixth formers?

[allsfairin]

I have had children go to several different sixth forms, some require suits and ties for boys / matching tailored skirt and jacket for girls. Some have a much more relaxed dress code.

My niece is now attending a sixth form which requires her to wear the matching tailored jacket and skirt, and she bought quite an expensive one, but the skirt is deemed too short and she needs to buy another. These items of clothing cost a lot especially for girls, and she has to wear the same one every day, as she can't really afford two.

My son attended this school more than 10 years ago, and I was happy enough for him to conform to the suit rules then, particularly as boys can quite often pick up suits in second hand shops, so nothing like the expense. It was, and is, a great school, he did very well, and has gone on to a great career.

However, he has never worn a suit since the day he left school, and nor have my other children. It did seem a bit old fashioned ten years ago, but these days, suits seem to me to quite often be a long way from acceptable business wear, and in fact to denote low status in the work place, whereas successful individuals generally wear smart/casual, or even casual/casual.

Looking at my own adult children and their friends, I know successful young people in music, science, finance, event management, energy, engineering - not one ever wears a suit, or even owns one, I know that by the frantic whats apps about 9pm on the evening before an interview recently when a friend of a friend suddenly wondered if he should be attending his interview in a suit and was messaging everyone he knew to see if he could borrow one, and the answer was no, no one possessed one

So IABU to think the insistence on suits in sixth form is outdated and obsolete, and these days denotes low, rather than high status? I think quite a lot of teachers still wear them, and maybe politicians, but these seem to be the only areas of life where they are still quite common

Yep, fully agree. It's no longer fit for purpose for the 21st century.
That depends on what you think the purpose of education is.

In my early career people were blabbering on about 21st century skills, don't teach knowledge, tech skills, jobs of the future haven't been invented yet. Honestly it led to a lot of bollocks and not good quality teaching.

Studying important areas of history is important to understand the present.
Maths is maths and hasn't changed. The applications have in the workplace but unless basic mathematical principles are taught, there's no point trying to jump to jobs of the future. Music is music.Someone might go on to be an innovative music professional, but they're still going to need notation. The themes in English such as power, authority, love, betrayal, tragedy etc are as relevant now as they were 300 years ago. Scientific research is always advancing, but the periodic table remains fairly stable, electrons haven't started behaving differently.

Every few years there's a rise in "haha, I never needed to use Pythagoras so why are students learning it? Teach them about life, taxes etc". I didn't need to use Pythagoras in my career after school, but for my peers who went to study STEM it gave them a decent foundation. There are topics in my career that they've not used since school. It wasn't a waste of time.

I'd be really concerned if any of the 21st century skills people got their hands on education.

I don't think it's a surprise that independent schools generally have a much broader curriculum than state schools, a culture of enrichment and co-curricular activities, broad social engagement etc. They value the things that provide a good foundation for a range of areas and the soft skills required to do well in life.

My DC wear suits for 6th floor,, they are impracticable.

DS has been wearing the same two suits since September. We have not dry cleaned them yet. He changes his shirt every night and showers twice a day. I have suggested we look at machine washable trousers and a crew neck jumper.

One of his friends has 4 brothers, feck knows how much it takes his parents to get uniforms and pe kit for them all.

I think uniforms are outdated. During COVID, the DC were allowed to wear PE kits, so much easier to wash and they looked much smarter.

I work in an office, very few people wear suits. When interviewing, I would not expect the candidates to wear a suit.

I disagree, I like a uniform. If you have a uniform up to year 11, why not sixth form? It makes life so much easier knowing what to wear each day, my dd (like many teen girls I imagine) worries about her image and what to wear.

I’m happy to see the “it’s to prepare them for work” argument has already been dismissed, but there’s also the fact that not a single person ever wears a suit or uniform at university. So they spend 13 years wearing a uniform in order to “prepare them” for work - but with a break of at least three years in between when they can wear whatever they like…

There is a big difference between 11 year olds and 16 year olds, that's why.

My dd actually did have a uniform as such in 6th form. She was studying musical theatre, English & RS & her uniform was black leggings, top/leotard and tracksuit. Simple and appropriate.

None of the girls at ds's college seemed to stress about what to wear. MOst defaulted to trackie bottoms, top and trainers/converse/DM's or occasionally shorts and a crop top.

I have twins who just started 6th form.
One has to wear a suit and one has to wear a suit one day a week and business casual the other days. Trust me business casual x 4 days is more expensive because you can’t just buy one business casual outfit.
But a few things stood out in your post - your said your niece choose an expensive suit. Not the school made her buy one - she chose a more expensive option over a cheaper option.
The other thing is I looked everywhere for a tailored women’s suit with a short skirt as that’s what my daughter wanted - I didn’t really find the two notions compatible as I could not find anything. I assumed maybe tailored jackets and short skirts are not a thing and people buy them as separates so that’s what we did. We got a black jacket from one place and a black skirt from elsewhere - can your niece just get another skirt?
Are you sure your niece did not alter the skirt to make it shorter?

Maybe different counties have different but all our local schools the year 7-12s wear blazers - it doesn’t seem a stretch to me 6th formers wear jackets just jackets of their own choosing.

Ridiculous. Do they need a brief case and filofax too? 😅 Like with many aspects of the education system, they aren't preparing them for the world as it is now, let alone what it will be like in another 10 years.

I agree. Our education system is stuck in the dark ages.

You’re not being unreasonable to think it’s rubbish, I agree, but those are the rules and sixth form is optional so don’t send them to that one. You cannot choose the school and then expect them to change the way they do things. You need to change the school - it depends on your priorities.

My kid’s school absolutely hammer SATs revision which I do not like. I chose the school based on the results amongst other things so my mouth stays quiet and I support my children through it.

I’d say if rules change part way through their education eg going from Y12-13, then I’d be very unhappy but surely they would put surveys and consultation periods out there first for big changes.

I agree they look stupid and what’s the point? If going to uni after where there are no dress standards as such or into jobs that many don’t now require that level of formality. DDs actually had the choice of two good schools and chose the one where 6th form was casual.

Not sure it's all that optional - kids have to stay in education till they are 18. Our four local options are all sixth-form suit-wearing schools...the buses to the next town are expensive and very infrequent - so if the aim was providing local kids with choice - that would be a big fat fail on that one! But it's always trotted out this idea of choice of schools the reality for many is it simply does not exist.

I couldn't imagine how annoyed/upset I'd be if I'd had to wear a suit every day at sixth form, particularly if it had been gender enforced as I refused then and still now to ever wear a skirt or dress. I haven't worn one since infant school.
My sixth form allowed simply no uniform for students and it felt like a real privilege.
I understand they would like students to be smart but there are less stringent ways of managing that than insisting on full formal wear.

None of the girls at ds's college seemed to stress about what to wear. MOst defaulted to trackie bottoms, top and trainers/converse/DM's or occasionally shorts and a crop top.

I think a lot of the issues that arise on non-uniform day come about because it’s an exception. So kids feel they need to carefully choose what to wear to make the right impression. That’s why people feel it’s a ‘fashion parade’. If they’re just wearing their own clothes all the time, it becomes pretty ordinary.

I’ve realised I’ve misrepresented the shirts and a crop top look. They were the goths. Bksck shirts, crop top, fishnet or 60 denier tights and DM’s.

Exactly this. I wrote about my experience several pages ago. I'm from non-uniform country and moved to uniformed international school for a few years. I've never been more stresses about what to wear than free dress days. Once we moved back there was no need to worry about what to wear anymore.

one has to wear a suit one day a week and business casual the other days. Trust me business casual x 4 days is more expensive because you can’t just buy one business casual outfit.

Honestly, I dislike this set up even more than school uniforms. Somehow everyone I know has learned to dress themselves even without these weird dress codes as teenagers.

Just let them wear whatever they want for god's sake. There was a kid on DS uni course who wore a bed sheet as a toga the whole four years. He still got a 1st.

In the city where DS goes to school, the policy for all schools appears to be suits for boys and whatever for girls, which doesn’t seem very fair especially in summer when the boys were still in suits and the girls in short skirts and vest tops. I definitely don’t think girls should be forced to wear suits but the boys’ policies need updating to reflect actual modern office wear. What’s wrong with wearing a smart polo shirt, or shirt with no tie in summer? Or smart trousers and a shirt/ polo shirt under a jumper in winter, which actually looks nicer and smarter IMO?

This is really not about the kids - it's a vanity project by the Head.
The image of a successful school, the pretence that what you see on the outside reflects the quality of the teaching on the inside. It's a load of shit, but I think enough parents buy into it. The disappointing thing is that the worse the teaching got at my dc's school the stricter they got about the uniform - it was the low-hanging fruit - easy to pick on the kids and their parents for uniform infringements, harder to fix poor teaching and bullying - you have to be seen to do something - it's time we stopped falling for this marketing crap!

Yanbu. Most young people who do A levels will go on to University. Are they going to wear suits at University? NO! It's preposterous and luckily seems not to be a thing in London.

Unfortunately some uk schools think a strict uniform policy increases their chances of academic success. It doesn’t.

It's about control isn't it. You will dress in what we tell you to wear whether you like it or not.
In every other sphere of life we encourage free thought and individuality, but not education.
Ridiculous.
Our local (state) sixth form let's the students wear whatever they like, yes they wear short shorts and crop tops in summer but so what? No one died at the sight of a leg or midriff.

@SoShallINever In every other sphere of life we encourage free thought and individuality, but not education. Ridiculous

What’s particularly ironic is the way so many schools with strict uniform rules are really big on the “be yourself” messaging. Be yourself - but only as long as you look exactly the same as everyone else!

A primary school near me made a big fuss of having a non-uniform day as part of a “wellbeing week” - parents got a letter saying how important it was for kids to be comfortable, wear their favourite colours, express themselves, etc etc. Somewhat begged the question why if it was so good for their well-being they didn’t just do it every day…

I completely agree.