to think suits are inappropriate for sixth formers?

[allsfairin]

I have had children go to several different sixth forms, some require suits and ties for boys / matching tailored skirt and jacket for girls. Some have a much more relaxed dress code.

My niece is now attending a sixth form which requires her to wear the matching tailored jacket and skirt, and she bought quite an expensive one, but the skirt is deemed too short and she needs to buy another. These items of clothing cost a lot especially for girls, and she has to wear the same one every day, as she can't really afford two.

My son attended this school more than 10 years ago, and I was happy enough for him to conform to the suit rules then, particularly as boys can quite often pick up suits in second hand shops, so nothing like the expense. It was, and is, a great school, he did very well, and has gone on to a great career.

However, he has never worn a suit since the day he left school, and nor have my other children. It did seem a bit old fashioned ten years ago, but these days, suits seem to me to quite often be a long way from acceptable business wear, and in fact to denote low status in the work place, whereas successful individuals generally wear smart/casual, or even casual/casual.

Looking at my own adult children and their friends, I know successful young people in music, science, finance, event management, energy, engineering - not one ever wears a suit, or even owns one, I know that by the frantic whats apps about 9pm on the evening before an interview recently when a friend of a friend suddenly wondered if he should be attending his interview in a suit and was messaging everyone he knew to see if he could borrow one, and the answer was no, no one possessed one

So IABU to think the insistence on suits in sixth form is outdated and obsolete, and these days denotes low, rather than high status? I think quite a lot of teachers still wear them, and maybe politicians, but these seem to be the only areas of life where they are still quite common

I'd say 20% of candidates I interview wear a suit now and that's for a professional job in London and you know what - it doesn't make an ounce of difference, I'll recruit someone with the right attitude and aptitude - suit-wearing ability is not something anyone ever talks about.

I agree!

I dont mind a suit /smart uniform code
I have had children go through one with no uniform requirements and through strict uniform requirements.

I think it is a positive thing we consider how we present our working self and our more casual self.

As for the hyacinth Bucquet comment. I dont have a issue with ripped jeans I do not think they are appropriate work gear however. No matter what job you do. In many jobs they will be a hazard. Doesn't mean I am some snob who doesn't get the real world. It means I have a different outlook to you. For me acknowledging the difference between casual and work is a positive. I read your post to mean you dont feel that way. @MidnightOnceMore

My DS will have to wear a suit if he stays at his school for Year 12. I'd rather they just had an extra 2 years in uniform; easier and cheaper to buy M&S school trousers and a new blazer. The boys all have suits that fit in Sept and are skimpy, and shiny, by Easter.

My DD goes into her school's sixth form in jeans/joggers/Crocs/trainers (and is indeed often a bit painty when she comes home). Looking at the destination of their leavers, their lack of tailoring isn't doing their results any harm.

I have never done a job that required me to wear a skirt suit, and I also don't own one. I do like a blazer to smarten me up from time to time, but likely with wide leg trousers, or a floaty skirt, never with a tailored skirt. For a job interview I might wear a dress with a jacket, but I could also choose a shirt and smart wool trousers.

If we are going to make them dress up in old fashioned outfits why not go the whole hog and insist on 1940s suits, fur stoles and trilby hats? Because making them wear 1990s suits is basically the same.

We are solicitors Dh still at a firm even he very very rarely wears a suit so for court or meeting an official body. Certainly not on a daily basis. It’s very silly.

So glad dds school doesn’t have this but several others in our small city do both state and private. Funnily enough the 2 wear what you want schools have the best results!

schools and colleges are running public services. Maybe their leadership could actually care about what the local
population think, rather than being enormously paternalistic in their approach (and assuming sign up from a largely captive audience means agreement).

Rather than insisting everyone dresses like it’s a young conservative conference, they could just pick a simple, casual dress code.

I don’t think I’ve ever paid any attention to the people I’m interviewing’s attire. I’d probably notice if they wore a suit, only because it would be incongruous.

When I was interviewed for my job the very senior person who did the final interview was wearing a T-shirt. Not a shirt. I’ve never seen him in a shirt. He earns a six figure salary and makes decisions affecting multiple geographical regions. Putting a shirt on wouldn’t make him better at his job.

I have never owned a suit of any description. I don’t envisage ever needing one.

Suits are outdated and ridiculous. I'd have no dress code apart from nothing indecent or gang related.

My four kids are all in their late 30s and in professional jobs, accounting, doctor, engineer and computer person. Non of them ever wear suits. Not even for interviews. They all look smart and professional.

My nieces and nephews' school (state comprehensive) specifies suits for boys in sixth form and girls must wear either a skirt/trouser suit or plain separates that include a smart jacket. They also have to wear smart loafers, heels or brogues, and tights if they're wearing a skirt.

The justification for this is that 'It prepares you for working life'. But this makes no sense because it assumes that every sixth former will be seeking a job in a) an office and b) an office that has the strictest possible office dress code. How does wearing a suit prepare anyone for working as a surgeon, for example? Or a marine biologist? Or an interior designer? Or a theatre director? And most office jobs these days absolutely do not impose a dress code like that on workers. I've been working in offices for 24 years now, and I've never worked anywhere with a dress code as strict as that. I currently work for a professional regulator (and the profession we regulate is notoriously hierarchical) and we can wear pretty much whatever we like. The only prohibited items are 'sportswear' (so, no tracksuits or sports team tops, but trainers and hoodies are fine) and 'slogans'.

Seeing a bunch of bright, lively, creative, individual teenagers dressed like they're 55 and working in an investment bank makes me feel really quite sad. It's downright weird. They're going to school, not the Tory Conference.

At work I alternate between trousers/skirt dress with a nice blazer or other days I might wear my leather jacket. Just depends on how I feel that day.

I like to see the kids at our local college, they look comfortable and stylish.

OMG I wore ripped jeans into our fancy London office last week...I missed the memo - what's supposed to happen, will my teammates not respect me anymore, is my career over?

Ripped jeans are fine in my workplace too

what I meant was I think it would be understandable if SCHOOLS put certain rules in place rather than make it a total free for all. But I don’t think they should insist on formal wear when most workplaces don’t insist on it.

So some days you wear a nice blazer - other days you wear a not-so-nice leather jacket! Maybe you should buy a nice leather jacket you'd probably feel much better about yourself - comfortable and stylish, it's a killer combo!

My leather jacket is very nice, thank you. Whether I wear it depends on the cut/style/colour of the rest of my outfit. I chickened out of buying one from Mango about 12 years ago (couldn't afford/justify/didn't have the confidence) but I finally bought one last year from All Saints last year.

I don’t think I’ve ever looked at a teenager in a suit and thought they looked ‘comfortable and stylish’. They look like they’re wearing what they’re required to wear - but mostly it looks crap.

I see the female 6 formers in DS’ school walking into school in pencil skirts, sheer tights and court shoes. They look as if they’re heading for the typing pool in the 1980’s. All that’s missing is a hideous pussy bow blouse.

its not preparing them for the world of work in any way. The majority of them will go to university anyway, so whatever will be deemed workplace attire at that stage, is still a long way off.

Have rules which make sense, yes. This insistence is ridiculous. I’m just glad DD went to the neighbouring school which required school logo’d t Shirts and sweatshirts and smart jeans/trousers. Leavers destinations were practically the same, so what is gained by enforcing ‘office wear’ ?

so what is gained by enforcing ‘office wear’ ?

Some sort of smug feeling of alignment with ‘traditional British values’, I think. For the adults. Not for the kids, who very often understand that it’s stupid.

It’s not even 21st century office wear for most people.

First off, what are the teachers wearing, in particular the female members of staff? As head of department, I normally wore smart trousers, dressy top and cardigan or a dress and leggings. I rarely wore a blazer in the classroom, only normally if meeting with parents. But it didn't 'match'. I only ever wore my suit for interviews.

I think blazers are a ridiculous and uncomfortable idea. Along with ties..... it's just wearing clothes for the sake of it.

There's an independent school near here and they don't have uniform. Only rule is no camouflage gear. (That must have been difficult when we had All Saints in the 90s!) And they even wear slippers in the classroom!

The kid's dress code was a lot more formal than the teachers - which always felt a bit odd. Female teachers always looked a bit scruffy - but who cares if you can do your job, right? But when the school get picky about your daughter wearing a blazer that isn't the same colour as her shift dress or the day the head of sixth form publicly criticized one of the girls for wearing a pink suit (which was technically allowed) it makes you a little bit snarky with the school - and that's the thing the drip, drip, drip of these ridiculous rules wears you down - I hated the school by the time my kids left - could not open one more email from them,.

DH and I both have practical and/or creative jobs. I've never worn a suit in my life , (I wore a blazer at school but went to a 6th form college with no uniform - I probably did wear ripped jeans!) DH had one for our wedding but I'm not sure he owns one now. We went to a funeral recently he wore black trousers and a merino wool jumper. Both of us have had jobs and been in "the world of work" since we were teens.

Practical subjects at school are particularly unsuitable for wearing a suit.
Woodwork, tech, cookery, art etc DD has ruined a few smart tops with paint, a friends son was pouring concrete wearing a suit ffs.

teachers, GPS, lawyers thar I know don't (or rarely) wear suits, I'd imagine not that many people do. And no one that does anything practical

Fully agree. Schools are decades behind the real World in so many ways!

Yes, "a long time ago". Probably when most people left school at 16 and didn't go into sixth form for A levels. Most would go to college or get a job. The minority who stayed for A levels were probably aiming for "professional" jobs that would require a suit - back then, A levels were the "gateway" to professional office jobs, and of course, a few decades ago, professional office job holders wore suits. It's a very different era now. Sixth form is a rite of passage into Uni so most are only there as part of the journey to get a degree, not like 50 years ago, where they took A levels to get a professional office job! And of course, suits are no longer the "normal" dress code of offices anymore, not even "professional" ones such as accountancy, law, architecture, banking, insurance, etc. So, yes, maybe 40-50 years ago, but the World has moved on, schools havn't!

Yes, indeed. Firms don't expect suits etc for interviews anymore as they know lots of candidates, especially younger ones, won't have one, particularly if they took their A levels at a college rather than a school sixth form.

My son had a few interviews at the start of the year (big national blue chip professional firms), and a few specified "smart casual" in their interview instructions. He wore his sixth form suit to the first, but said the interviewers and other candidates weren't wearing them, so he just wore chinos and a smart shirt for the others. He got 3 job offers, so it didn't do him any harm, in fact, the job he didn't get was the one that he wore his suit for. Now he's working in a professional office and says everyone wears casual, some even wearing ripped jeans and T shirts, and literally no one cares!

Personally think education needs a massive overhaul generally.

Dd is doing the same a levels as me and the topics are the same! I’m nearly 50 the world has changed!

Yep, fully agree. It's no longer fit for purpose for the 21st century.

When we were looking around secondary school open days, I couldn't believe how little things had changed. Basically just computerised white boards instead of blackboards and overhead projectors. The art classrooms looked the same, as did the tech classrooms and, yes, they're still making wooden fish in woodwork and doing screen printing in art.

I said to OH at the time, I could have been walking around my old school as it all looked so similar, despite the 40 year time gap.

And yes, definitely re subjects etc - so little has changed.

I know teachers complain about constant change, but it really is just constant re-arranging the deckchairs on the titanic rather than any meaningful modernisation of the schools or syllabus. Crazy really when the World has changed so much over the past few decades.