Friends surrogacy

[Fatcat00]

Not a particularly close friend, but friend enough for me to be invited to social events etc. has recently told me she is having a baby due in April, I was shocked and congratulated her, she then says “surrogate… obviously”. I was a bit lost for words.

for context friend has recently divorced, they had been trying for a baby for 5 years, had IVF etc. I furthered the conversation and asked if it was her egg. Her response was “nah, I’m not bothered if it’s not my biological baby.. I just want a baby”. Followed by “I can’t be assed putting hormones into my body for the sake of my own egg”. I am just so shocked and speechless, I don’t agree with surrogacy for a number of reasons. Some of them being I don’t agree with the hiring of a woman’s body. I don’t agree with a baby being ripped away from its mother to suit someone else’s needs and the physical and psychological implications to both baby and mother as such. Why not just adopt?? If you don’t care for the child to be your biological anyway, why not adopt a baby who needs a parent?

it’s kind of made me look at her in a different light. She seemed very flippant about it (I’m aware this is just how she has came across I’m sure it’s a lengthy and draining process). She says she was put in touch with this woman through a friend who had used her.

essentially, this surrogate has just got pregnant for the purpose of handing over the baby to someone else in exchange for cash. I think I’d still be a bit 🤔 even if it was her own egg if truth be told.

I just can’t get my head around it. Am I being a bit of a bigot? Aibu to want to distance myself a bit? I don’t like feeling as though someone’s path to parenthood or happiness is “wrong” but it really doesn’t sit right with me and I’m not entirely sure why.

The anti surrogacy arguments are always just people policing what women can do with their bodies. It’s never ok to do that just because you don’t agree with surrogacy.

Would you be ok with a woman changing her mind half way through the pregnancy, deciding that she actually didn't want to do it?

Yes you can live a normal and healthy life, but losing a kidney or part of your liver is not a normal or healthy physiological state if a person.
pregnancy and childbirth is a normal physiological state of a woman, it’s not a health problem or disease, and in fact has some significant health benefits (in terms of reducing risks of various cancers etc).

You’re also flippant and ignorant for the “just adopt” comment.

This massively misses a vital point in the debate-

The ethical issues of treating babies as if they are a commodity - people have the right not to be bought/sold or donated. Just because you created a life or paid for one to be created doesn’t mean you can do what you like with them.

Adoption in the UK is very hard. Jump through a lot of hoops to prove you are the perfect person even though if you had your own child no one would ask any of these things. It takes years

pregnancy and childbirth is a normal physiological state of a woman, it’s not a health problem or disease

Pregnancy and childbirth can cause all kinds of long term issues for women's bodies, up to and including death

It’s difficult for a reason.

But you acknowledge the thing that you think is a good thing can sometimes be a bad thing? The vast majority of surrogacy that occurs around the world is exploitation: a rich western couple using a destitute woman from a country with no other options open to her.

So the thing you say is a good thing is mostly a bad thing. So does that still make it a good thing?

Your example doesn’t work. That’s solvable. Give the money directly to those who need it, or if that’s not possible it has to be acknowledged that foreign aid should stop (an argument many already make.)

But no one is ever willing to offer a solution to the exploitation side of surrogacy.

But if a woman wanted to donate a kidney/liver part and it was her choice to do it, who are you to police what she does with her body?

I don’t agree with asking someone (not even a close friend) whether it’s their egg when they tell you they’re having a baby. Absolutely none of your business. If she chooses to volunteer that information, it’s up to her.

Realistically, she is likely to have gone through a lot to get to a place where she is willing to use a donor egg, and saying something flippant on the surface doesn’t mean that’s how she’s feeling underneath.

Pregnancy is natural and seen in all mammals. I've never seen a monkey do a kidney transplant though.

This is patently untrue especially if a donor egg (to the surrogate) is used.
I have no ethical concerns with people having fertility treatments but it not a “normal physiological state”.
The method of getting pregnant via IVF, for example, is riskier than a standard conception. The drugs and procedures are not “normal” and yes, I’ve been through it. Nobody is saying don’t do it but it’s untrue to pretend otherwise.

Have you ever seen a monkey give its baby away to another monkey for the price of some nuts?

I don't think it really matters tbh. If a woman wants to have a baby for somebody else she'll do it and there's nothing you can really do about it.

This has been repeated multiple times throughout the thread but…..we are already policed on our bodies! You do not have the legal right to demand an abortion at any time nor sell your organs.

In the UK;
You cannot legally give your kidney away for “expenses”.
You cannot legally walk into a clinic and request to terminate an otherwise healthy foetus at 36 weeks.

You’re only focused on the pregnancy and bodily autonomy but completely ignoring the baby. A woman can choose to get pregnant, of course and indeed her body - and the pregnancy - is her choice. Once that baby is born, it automatically has human rights and legal protections.

So why can’t I sell my kidney? I will need a very generous amount in expenses for time off work and travel to and from medical appointments. I want some compensation for the potential risk and scarring etc.

It doesn’t matter? Because it proves how surrogacy isn’t something that occurs in nature?

There’s plenty that can be done about it. Many progressive countries have banned surrogacy in all forms. I’m still waiting for any of the pro-surrogacy posters to outline how they propose to protect women and babies. You seem to be advocating for a free market of baby exchange? And any negative consequences are outweighed by the tiny minority of women who freely choose to do it?

If you dig down deep I dont think your issue is your friend or "hiring" a woman to have a baby.

It's actually judgement that a woman could sell her baby.

I don’t know how you wouldn’t judge someone who is buying or selling a human being.

CampervanKween

I think surrogacy is awful. I'm sure these kids will grow up damaged but no-one seems to care. It's so selfish.

So you think everyone who is adopted is damaged too?

Do you not agree with abortion?

The default position of adoption as a general process is that the child will experience trauma at some stage in their lives. Lots of research, protocols and support is put in place to help the adoptive parents and the child (throughout their lives) deal with this experience. If the child doesn’t need support or experience trauma at any stage, great! It’s not needed. But the framework is in place if it is.

How’s that going in the world of surrogacy?

I don't think the issue is that there are thousands of woman wanting to have babies for other people. If there was, then fine.
The issue for me is money changing hands and exploitation of women. And selling a child, who has no rights in this situation.

I said bring pregnant is an ordinary and healthy physiological state, which it is.
not the same as only having one kidney.