To think these are correct table manners or am I just a snob??

[Justintime3]

I was raised with strict table manners, yet I have never been sat at a table with anyone who has the same table manners I do! Are these over the top?

This is what I was taught

1. Do not eat until the person who cooked sits down (excused if the chef says you can start)
2. Do not eat until everyone has their food in a restaurant (excused if the person without their food says you can start)
3. Chew with your mouth closed and do not speak with your mouth full
4. Do not take calls or use your phone at the table. Excuse yourself if you need to
5. Put your knife and fork together at the front of your plate when you are finished
6. Offer the last serving of XYZ to the table before you take it
7. Thank the person who cooked and offer to clean up
8. Elbows off the table
9. Tear bread into small chunks to eat in a restaurant, don't bite off the whole roll

10. Use cutlery correctly

• index finger on top of your knife and fork
• spoons for soup and dessert only. Spoon the soup from the farthest side of the bowl
• load food onto the back of the fork with your knife. (No 'shovelling' as my mum called it)

My mum's always been really strict on it and is the type to point out people's bad table manners so I've always followed these to a T. Thoughts? Is this over the top and I'm a snob, or are these just normal to expect?

Because of how I've been raised I can't help but be put off when I see someone without these manners.

Just keen to see how others were raised!

I was raised the same as you. Dh never used to put his cutlery together and I was shocked (which I realise sounds ridiculous). It was so normal to me I didn’t realise others didn’t do it. He does now because it irrationally bothers me. I have a few things like that that I think are normal and dh thinks are odd and specific (like the envelope bit of a pillow needs to over the end of the pillow - this matters to me but dh thinks I’m odd). Dh described my “quirks” to the dc saying “mummy likes things done a certain way and we do it that way because it matters to mummy and we love her.” This is how I learned dh thought I was weird because he never actually showed it before 😂

Yup.
Have over time through experience learned the basic manners that white people expect.

Basically you don't dip the bread roll in soup and then bite it.

You have to tear off a piece - butter it if you want. Then dip the small piece into soup or eat.

why elbows off the table? I'm comfortable leaning on the table so what's the problem?

I saw a history thing explaining that it used to be because the tops weren’t secured to the legs so, if someone put their elbows on he table, the top would tip.

I would agree that most of these are pretty basic. Except that I don't put anything on the back of a fork. (I'm American.)

I do most of these, but not the last one. I have trouble with my grip in one hand so it is much easier for me to "shovel".

Not really thought much about these before, but I guess I must've been taught them at some point because they are all there in my head as second nature. I'm not sure if I've consciously noticed any friends who don't do these things, so maybe these rules are normal for my friendship circle too. We're in our 40s though, and I would say it was fairly normal to sit at a dinner table for meals, whereas now more houses are built without dining rooms, or big old houses are divided into smaller flats, so fewer people grow up eating at a dining table these days.

Knife and fork together when you’ve finished, signals you’ve finished, whereas putting them down at ‘7.25pm’ on the clock face means you’ve just paused.

We were taught the same thing.

You are incorrect regarding the soup.

You should spoon away from yourself.

The rest are just standard table manners.

Yanbu. These are pretty basic. I cannot stand it when people just dig in for second helpings without asking if anybody else would like some first. I also think it’s rude when you go to eat at somebody’s house and there is only ‘just enough’ for everybody.

The vast majority of those are completely standard and I don’t think I know anybody who wouldn’t do them. They are generally about politeness and respect (waiting for others for food, eating with mouth closed etc).

There are a few less obvious ones - I can’t get excited by which way somebody scoops their soup, for example. As long as they don’t slurp it, it really doesn’t matter. And the bread thing reads a bit oddly, unless you just mean that you shouldn’t bite into a whole bread roll (where said roll is provided as a side/for soup) which again is pretty obvious.

I don’t use the back of my fork other than in a very posh / pretentious setting - cannot be arsed and again I don’t think it really matters.

My mum is big on table manners but still uses a spoon with a fork for spaghetti (I use a knife). So I guess there is some flex!

Some of them are odd conventions.

It is polite to offer the last of something to everyone else before you take it.

Equally, it would be the height of rudeness if someone IS offering you the last of something, that they clearly want, to actually take it!

If you are sat at the table being served its polite to wait til everyone has their food - however if you are the host serving, it is polite to tell people to start without you rather than let food go cold.

Much of it is about all sitting down together in a relatively small space, and some is about being served by others.

Knife and fork open at 5 and 7 on the plate = I am still eating, don't clear my plate.
Knife and fork together neatly on the plate = I am finished, you may clear my plate.

This makes bog all difference at home with family, but if you were sat at a big table with wait staff clearing and serving, it is the difference between having your plate cleared or a member of staff having to politely cough and interrupt conversation and ask if you if you're finished.

Similarly, elbows on tables causes you to lean forward. Sat at a long straight table, you're then stopping anyone next to you seeing/conversing with anyone the other side of you (and whilst conversation across a person is also rude, blocking them from having the option of saying 'would you pass the salt' or being able to react to something terribly witty they just said is pretty rude).

Sat at a round dining table or a table with fewer people at it, this is no longer a big problem.

I think people latch onto some of these things as ridiculous without understanding their context.

They also forget that it is the pinnacle of bad manners to draw anyones attention or comment in any obvious way, to any etiquette faux pas! The British way is to say nothing at all, the judge the hell out of them later in your head! Obviously! (Joking, for the hard-of-humour).

YANBU. All basic manners.

@RallyRallyAppreciateIt Oh that's interesting. Not so much manners then as historical habit.

They're basic table manners - did you mention keeping your fork pointing downwards? Forks should not be pointing upwards. I would have received a death stare from my DM if I'd done that as a child! And my DF was very fussy about elbows on the table, although DM would try to placate him by saying it was acceptable in France.

Very OTT. I don't even have a table to eat at lol

Sounds pretty normal to me

all fairly standard apart from 5 - I can't say I'd be bothered by the exact positioning of the cutlery on the plate, nor see how placement at a different part of the plate would put someone off their meal!

I'd have some tolerance towards 4 too - Using the phone to supplement the conversation in an informal setting - i.e. showing a photo of your kids if asked about them by friends when eating out at a pub together would be fine. Sending a very quick message would be okay too - I'd think it a bit OTT, for example, if someone stepped away from the table to excuse themselves to send a text to ask their partner to pick them up, because it would take literally 10 seconds. Ignoring the people you're eating with to play with your phone (or literally ringing someone at the table as my friend did yesterday) = rude.

Why is she a snob?

What's wrong with the list?

Theres a nice story, probably apocryphal, but the principal applies. Queen Victoria was hosting a guest from a foreign country. At the end of the meal, finger bowls of water were passed around so that everyone could clean their hands. The guest of honour had never seen such a thing so he lifted it to his mouth and drank it. Stunned silence passed through the room until the Queen raised her finger bowl to her mouth and drank. And then all the guests followed suit.
Whether it’s an urban legend or a fact, it is such a great example of acceptance and making people feel that they are perfect just the way they are.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=siobhankukolic.com/queen-victoria/%23:~:text%3DAs%2520the%2520story%2520goes%252C%2520Queen,his%2520mouth%2520and%2520drank%2520it.&ved=2ahUKEwiI1LHx3ZmCAxWzhf0HHTCpDU0QFnoECBMQBQ&usg=AOvVaw0NKQ7nh2z5KrstZl0OEKqu

I also think, in terms at actually judging people, there's a big difference between things which are inherently rude or unpleasant, and things which are just custom.

It should be fairly obvious that no one wants to see your chewed up food in your mouth, for example.

But the placement of cutlery when you're done is definitely a custom, but it's also something that you can't really work out (even if you see other people do it, I'm not sure it would be obvious that that's the way it must be done). There's no reason to think "it's good table manners to put my cutlery this way" beyond being told that it is. So I think it's very unreasonable to say that you're put off people who don't do it.

I don't think it's unreasonable to do these things, or to teach them to your children. I do that too. But while I do find someone chewing with their mouth open, or taking a phone call at the dinner table to be rude and off putting, I don't feel the same way about cutlery placement.

YANBU. I was expecting from the sound of it extreme over the top but no, these are all what I was raised with and would consider basic manners.

These are basic table manners. People who shovel food in and insist on talking with their mouth full make me feel ill at a table.

Pretty standard except one doesn’t eat until everyone has sat down and served themselves. Soup is scooped front to back and you can put your elbows on the table, just don’t sit with your head in your hands watching the kids who’s stomach enzymes don’t activate unless they have an iPad 6 inches away from their face.

A certain way, yes properly. What else could you do with a pillow case, just leave it half done? And 6.30 to show you've finished in a restaurant or at home is just correct signals to save time asking.

Sounds normal to me.

I was taught it is ok to start eating if more than five at the table have already been served. But of course this depends on the number at the table left waiting. E.g. if there are six at the table, then wait until everyone has been served.

Also cross your knife and fork if you have stopped eating temporarily and place together when you have completely finished.

Also ask for items to be passed to you instead of reaching across the table yourself.

Also meals should be eaten at the table. The only exception is if you're sick and eating from a tray.

That is how I was taught and it is what I am teaching my kids.