To think women should support other women more

[Moonshild]

As I get older - I'm early 50's - I have noticed quite how unsupportive women can be to each other and I think we all need to change this.

Generally married women and women in relationships have a smug unsympathetic air about them towards single women/parents.

I can't decide if it has always been this way or is just getting worse.

Doing things on your own - with a partner in the background - is VERY different to doing everything on your own with no partner.

Regardless of how unhelpful many men can be - there is someone there when you come home after work and to share the costs of life.

If you have no one you can be very much alone and I see so many women being unsympathetic to their single friends on so many levels.

My own experience is that I am divorced with two grown up children. I have been on my own since separating - I have made a few attempts to date but have found it both stressful and depressing.
I divorced because my ex was emotionally abusive and despite the fact he has a new partner - continues to attempt to get at me through our children. I am still helping our children to emotionally deal with him.

Most of my friends are in couples. But I find it increasingly hard listening to them discussing the events they are going to/ organising both with and without partners. I am rarely included.
They know my situation, they know I am on a low income in an expensive area and no I probably could not afford to do a lot of the things they do BUT it would be nice to be asked and have the choice to say no.

So that I don't become a complete hermit I go to the local pub for a drink once a week. I used to work there so feel comfortable to go in alone.

I am fully aware that there are lots of women alone out there like myself but what I have noticed more and more is that these women become more and more isolated.
When I was first separated - I noticed that women stopped inviting me to parties etc because I was deemed a threat - as a single woman and having spoken to other women they have experienced the same thing.
I DONT WANT YOUR HUSBAND/PARTNER.

This should not be happening - what is wrong with women? No one knows when they might end up in the same situation - have some sympathy and give some time to those women who struggle on regardless.

We might put on a good front that we are fine but I can guarantee at least 90% shed tears regularly because:
We are lonely
We are worried about paying rent and bills
We are struggling to deal with our ex's
We are trying to support our children - whatever their age - emotionally
We need a hug or someone to care
We are struggling with our emotions

If you have a single female friend - don't tell them how they should be improving their life - its easy to offer advise and make decisions in a relationship:
Just listen to them
Invite them for coffee
Call/text them
Don't look at them as a threat to your relationship
Just include them even if they say no

But mainly be KIND - you might be them one day

I’m a single and similar age. I don’t really want sympathy, if you are being treated that way maybe it’s time to get out there and make new friends, maybe others in similar situation to yourself.

YABU with your generalisations.
I am sorry you are going through a rough time, but lumping 1/2 the population together as if we were one person doesn't help anything.

This.

I don't think any women see me as a potential man-stealer - I think that's a paranoid idea quite often. And I'd feel incredibly patronised if people adhered to the list of 'tips' you've given.

I think the thread is a bit strange to be honest. Single/divorced middle aged women are often leading full, happy lives even if it wouldn't suit a lot of people.

I used to know a couple who treated me like you're suggesting. I think they were just trying to 'be kind' but it came off at times, like they thought I was their sad single friend who needed to 'get out more' and needed their help with everything because I was on my own. It was like I was a project of theirs or something. It didn't feel good a lot of the time

you sound really miserable and understandably so. I’m sorry for your misfortune, however…honestly, perhaps women are not inviting you because you’re so negative. It’s also not their responsibility to give you a social life. If you’re that concerned, invite yourself among, arrange things yourself.

I have plenty of single female friends and don’t consider them a threat at all, the thought genuinely never crossed my mind. They are strong independent women, just like me, but I also have a husband that’s the only difference. We’re not defined by our marital status!

I really wish you all the best and hope you find some friends who can offer what you need

I’d be a bit bemused if my friends started sympathising with me for being single or worrying that I was after their partners.

Sorry about your experiences but I think you need to rethink your social circle. It everyone is like that. In fact no one I know is like that.

It is very true that married women often are worried that their husband might fancy their single friend or vice Versa. I’ve seen this a lot! And not without reason either; all 3 of my closest friends husbands, when drunk, have made advances towards me (either verbally or physically - I was groped multiple times last NYE and now have nothing to do with this particular couple).

additionally, a very good male friend of mine who I’ve known for years (used to work together- I don’t know his wife though) seriously SA’d me in the summer at a party.

many of my other single friends have also experienced this. A lot of my married friends don’t actually trust their husbands around other women cos they know full well that this happens

Not all single women feel anything like you do op.

I have been single for extended periods of time and also in a long term relationship and married. I don't recognise any of the things you say. I always felt my married friends understood the challenges of being single, just as they understood the considerable benefits. And I feel the same. You need better friends.

I think you need to change your friendship group. I'm single and don't think other women have any responsibility in terms of supporting me.

Crikey it’s your friends that are the problem. I have two single women friends one is divorced and one has never lived with a bloke that I am close to. One came over to dinner a few weeks ago with DH and I.

I also have two friends who are potentially divorcing their husbands, one is in couples counselling. Basically those women you refer to as your friends don’t like you enough.

Don't look at them as a threat to your relationship

It has honestly never occurred to me to do that.
You sound really negative and as if you think your friends owe you some kind of therapy, it's not their job to support you in that way, they might not be equipped to so and you're judging them unfairly because of it.

@Moonshild

I hear you. I'm not divorced but widowed and not much older than you. "Couple friends" have vanished and I think this is two fold. One, because the woman suddenly sees you as a threat. I know this sounds ridiculous to the unitiated but it is a very real and known phenomenon. She will assume you must be desperate not just for sex but for help with DIY or with your car.

Secondly you are now a different entity. Your "couple friends" signed up to socialise with "Dave & Jean" not just "Jean". "Just Jean" considerably alters the dynamic at, say, a dinner party that would previously have been for 2 men and 2 women.

I have known women who have always been single and their lives and friendships have evolved accordingly. I am talking about women's attitudes to other women who were formerly part of a long term couple. I am also not referencing very young people.

That's you having friends with gross, predatory partners/husbands. Not single women being an implicit threat to married/partnered women.

If coupled women are concerned their DP/DH cannot control themselves around other women, that's a problem with the man.

Your married friends have shit DPs/DHs if they can't trust them not to assault or harass other women.

Honestly, it's not all that common that coupled women are aware of this, accept it and avoid friendships with other women as a result. It's really not.

Hmmm. As someone who is a single parent, I find most women just treat me normally.

There’s always going to be people who put others down or try to make people feel bad. Some Sahps do it to working parents. Some working parents do it to sahp. Some people in relationships are condescending to single people. Some single people act like being single is superior and people in relationships must be miserable.

The list goes on.

I am also not a fan of having to support someone just based on their sex. I don’t really understand what support you would be looking for.

I think plenty of people could just be less judgmental about other peoples lives.

TBH, if women are worried their husbands are going to hit on you because you are single, I wouldn’t want to be around them. That means they know they husbands are cheating bastards that’s step over women’s boundaries. Very few women want their mates husbands to hit on them so doing so would be stepping over a boundary. And if their husband is a cheater who cracks into women, why would they only stick to single women. There ‘friends’ are subjecting their friends to their disgusting husbands.

Actually, you only need to read MN to see how utterly common it is!

I'm a single mother. I'm not struggling and I don't want sympathy. I have had 2 husbands attempt to hit on me. I shut it down. Disgusting people

But it isn't. It's the subject of a MN thread because it isn't that common, that's why it's a topic.

If it was common for womens DP/DHs to be sexually assaulting or harassing any other woman they come into contact with and all these wives thinking the women are the problem, it would be accepted as just the way things are.

But every single thread about that on MN will result in 'LTB' responses.

Things get discussed on MN because it is an issue, so that gives a skewed idea of how frequent it is. If you went by MN threads, virtually every woman has a terrible narcissistic and abusive MIL and a lazy, abusive DP/DH. And virtually everyone has a child with SEN. And virtually everyone has anxiety, hates dogs or whatever it is bothering them that day.

They're threads because something happened that upset/annoyed/confused the poster. So then you get people joining in saying 'yes that happened to me' because that's the point of the thread.

Talking about things that have upset them or just generally having a moan or complaining and people join in so it seems much more of a significant problem than it is in reality.

But it doesn't mean those experiences are particularly common.

My oldest friend is single and never been in a long term relationship. We are both 43.

I have never assumed she has designs on my husband- or vice versa. I don't feel sympathy for her - she has a great life.

I only ask about dating etc. if she mentions she has been online dating. We have other things to talk about.

I think you need new friends and perhaps therapy as you sound really unhappy

I know a few divorced and single women and they are all happy. Well, as happy as can be with their situations. In fact the divorced ones get out more, as they split weekends with their ex. Single ones are always travelling, gallivanting.

Around my age very few parents socialise as a couple - would need to pay for a babysitter or take turns, making meeting up trickier than what it used to be. Maybe that's why you're a bit lonely?

This, I have plenty of single friends, I don’t treat them any differently to friends who happen to be in relationships.

I think OP the issue is not women in general, it’s your social circle, nobody I know behaves like you’ve described.

I have never thought any single woman was after my husband, even if they were he has the freewill to say yes or no, I don't control him but trust he will not allow himself to be seduced by someone single or married.

It sounds like you and your friends have drifted apart and lost a connection with each other. Whether that is because they think you are after their dhs or because you think they think that of you, or some of the other reasons you are imagining in your post is irrelevant. You need to find people, or opportunities to socialise you are more comfortable with.

YABU
I don’t see why single women need sympathy as a default, or men for that matter or why that would make a difference. Not everyone is miserable and single, seems patronising to assume they are.

YABU to generalise like this.

I’ve been single plenty and have never felt ostracised or patronised by married women friends (why would they? - they aren’t dicks). And I certainly don’t think I shed any more tears than the average person or was in any need of particular support.

Your problem is your own friendship so work on that. If you are single it would make sense to have friends who are too.

I don’t how old you are, but is there some way to boost your career so you can get financially stronger?

I am sorry you’re having a rough time, but thinking there is something intrinsically sad about being a woman who is single is really not going to help. Building the life you want isn’t easy, and you will likely need support, but building up your life is what you need to do.

I think like the OP, you need a better friendship group